Opioids Can thebaine be destroyed from opium?

[Jaredborgetti]

If the melting point of thebaine is 194.5C and the melting point of morphine is 250C, can you destroy the thebaine in opium via heat?

 

[KS78]

Seems like it according to this information.

 

[Hodor]

Seems like it according to this information.

There's a difference between "melting" (i.e. going from solid to liquid) and "thermal decomposition".

"Melting" is a reversible process; solid water, for example, can be melted and frozen as often as you want, and it will still stay H2O.

In fact, there are times where you deliberately try to decrease a substance's melting/boiling point in order to prevent it from being destroyed, like "freebasing" cocaine in order to get its boiling point down to a level where it can be effectively vaporized upon heating (as opposed to cocaine hydrochloride, whose boiling points and temperature of decomposition are so close together that attempting to smoke the drug is going to cause a lot of it to be incinerated).

In fact, if melting a drug was the same as destroying it, we obviously wouldn't be able to smoke opium either.

Lastly, many chemicals will form so-called "eutectic mixtures" with each other, that is a mixture with a melting point that is lower than the melting point of either of its components.

 

[Jaredborgetti]

S

There's a difference between "melting" (i.e. going from solid to liquid) and "thermal decomposition".

"Melting" is a reversible process; solid water, for example, can be melted and frozen as often as you want, and it will still stay H2O.

In fact, there are times where you deliberately try to decrease a substance's melting/boiling point in order to prevent it from being destroyed, like "freebasing" cocaine in order to get its boiling point down to a level where it can be effectively vaporized upon heating (as opposed to cocaine hydrochloride, whose boiling points and temperature of decomposition are so close together that attempting to smoke the drug is going to cause a lot of it to be incinerated).

In fact, if melting a drug was the same as destroying it, we obviously wouldn't be able to smoke opium either.

Lastly, many chemicals will form so-called "eutectic mixtures" with each other, that is a mixture with a melting point that is lower than the melting point of either of its components.

So is it possibly somehow to destroy the thebaine from opium or not?

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Ppl have tried to do this with poppy seed tea--as in try to completely eliminate the thebaine content. I'm in over my head talking about this but I do know that as far as today no one was successful yet. They either destroy the other wanted alkloids in the process or lower the morph content as a consequence.

Imo it's not possible as far as we know but someone can totally say otherwise and why lol. I think if it was as easy as destroying the thebaine content using melting point info it would be done with seed tea as well, but it hasn't been done yet. You're asking a q that is highly specific and most people have not tried to do. I don't know if anyone has figured out yet how to do what you're asking.

 

[Hodor]

So is it possibly somehow to destroy the thebaine from opium or not?

When refluxing opium in acetic anhydride, the thebaine is converted to (presumably inactive) thebaol/acetylthebaol.

Of course you'd also be manufacturing heroin in doing so, which might not be a legal risk you'd want to take.

You could also try to do an acid-base extraction on the morphine (using a strong base to de-protonate the phenolic hydrogen in the 3-position, allowing you to extract it into the aqueous phase), although doing so would also lose you the codeine, as well as some of the morphine.

That said... why would you be so desperate to get rid of the thebaine anyway? Yes, it is somewhat toxic, but it's not like there's all that much of it in regular P. somniferum to begin with, and any chemical you could use in the process of removing it (like the aforementioned boiling acetic anhydride, or NaOH/quicklime) is arguably far more dangerous than a tiny amount of thebaine. Heck, I would argue that the most dangerous poppy alkaloid is still morphine itself, not to mention the generally detrimental effects that a drug manufacturing charge can have on one's life.