Heroin can anyone find anything on sublingual heroin

[Gray808]

ive been looking for studies mentioning sublingual or buccal diactylmorphine, I want to know how the metabolism and bioavailability differ from oral or intranasal routes. Im beginning to think we simply don't have this information recorded in the literature but if anyone could provide studies I've missed or anecdotal reports I would be interested in reading thanks.

 

[Sleepy70x]

Question: why?

I used to waterline tar, I'm guessing it just goes straight down your gut. Might as well boof it.

 

[Gray808]

Question: why?

I used to waterline tar, I'm guessing it just goes straight down your gut. Might as well boof it.

mostly curiosity and convenience it'd be kinda cool to just have a volumetric liquid dosing solution and then just pull out however many ml and just drop it under my tounge but I feel like it could be potentially wastfull maybe the saliva enzymes mess with it maybe the BA is shitty idk

 

[fairnymph]

I’ve done a fair bit of sublingual h. It’s not ideal - nasal use, in liquid form, is much better - but it’s definitely superior to just oral. Morphine is hyperalgesic for me (makes my chronic pain worse), so I’m very aware of any in my system. I keep my nasal solution in an allergy nasal dropper or nasal spray bottle & use it anywhere & everywhere. I was even taken into police custody & they never thought to check my bottle.

 

[Gray808]

I’ve done a fair bit of sublingual h. It’s not ideal - nasal use, in liquid form, is much better - but it’s definitely superior to just oral. Morphine is hyperalgesic for me (makes my chronic pain worse), so I’m very aware of any in my system. I keep my nasal solution in an allergy nasal dropper or nasal spray bottle & use it anywhere & everywhere. I was even taken into police custody & they never thought to check my bottle.

my only questions with that is how do you gauge how many mg are in a single spray do you just make the solution not super strong and just start slow work your way up and figure out how many sprays you wanna do per dose without rlly getting to know exactly what that dose is or can you like put some water in there and weight it and then do a spray and weigh it again and then convert water weight to ml then know ok like 5 ml of water come out per sray so if I make the solution 1mg h / 1ml water and then know your getting 5 mg per spray are those bottles consistent enough to rlly do that and then the other thing is does the spray bottle leave behind anything or waste anything its pretty rare for me to find genuine shit so I want to be careful not to waste it at all thanks

and ya i wish it was easier for us scientists to study heroin the redicuals idea of putting it in schedule one just means we don't get to know as much abt it as we should like how does the metabolism of nasal or sublingual work we know that info on orally or IV or IM but we have a very limited collective knolage of how much and how quickly it goes from diactyl to 3 or 6 monoactyl to regular morphine to the glucuronides. rlly annoying that it'd be too much to ask someone to just and administer it by those routes and watch blood concentrations because oxy fent morphine diloadid so on all have medicinal uses but heroin no definitely not. and in the fictional world the dea is living in where there's no possible legitimate use how is it better to not have any understanding of it in what possible way is it more usful to not know things abt it. sorry for the rant shit just pisses me off I spend a lot of time trying to gather info to keep me and my friends safer but bullshiit laws are always limiting available reasarch for no actually valid reason.

 

[Gray808]

oh and forgot to thank you guys for sharing your experiences I really do appreciate it

 

[fairnymph]

my only questions with that is how do you gauge how many mg are in a single spray do you just make the solution not super strong and just start slow work your way up and figure out how many sprays you wanna do per dose without rlly getting to know exactly what that dose is or can you like put some water in there and weight it and then do a spray and weigh it again and then convert water weight to ml then know ok like 5 ml of water come out per sray so if I make the solution 1mg h / 1ml water and then know your getting 5 mg per spray are those bottles consistent enough to rlly do that and then the other thing is does the spray bottle leave behind anything or waste anything its pretty rare for me to find genuine shit so I want to be careful not to waste it at all thanks

and ya i wish it was easier for us scientists to study heroin the redicuals idea of putting it in schedule one just means we don't get to know as much abt it as we should like how does the metabolism of nasal or sublingual work we know that info on orally or IV or IM but we have a very limited collective knolage of how much and how quickly it goes from diactyl to 3 or 6 monoactyl to regular morphine to the glucuronides. rlly annoying that it'd be too much to ask someone to just and administer it by those routes and watch blood concentrations because oxy fent morphine diloadid so on all have medicinal uses but heroin no definitely not. and in the fictional world the dea is living in where there's no possible legitimate use how is it better to not have any understanding of it in what possible way is it more usful to not know things abt it. sorry for the rant shit just pisses me off I spend a lot of time trying to gather info to keep me and my friends safer but bullshiit laws are always limiting available reasarch for no actually valid reason.

They make very accurate nasal spray bottles that always eject the same known amount of fluid, provided the mechanism isn’t clogged. So you can definitely know exactly what dose is in each spray. But that assumes you have pure h. Nothing gets wasted. I started with 1mg/spray back when I first started with lab h.

Most street h, even micron filtered, unfortunately clogs the mechanism very quickly. Now I use an eyedropper. It’s not quite as efficient but certainly still works, and is better than smoking or plugging, for me.

One thing you do have to keep in mind whenever you have h in solution: it will break down over time as acetyl groups detach. A more concentrated, more acidic, colder solution will break down more slowly, but you only want it to be very slightly acidic or it will damage your nose. I’ve found the best approach is to only make small amounts of solution at a time - three days worth max.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

They make very accurate nasal spray bottles that always eject the same known amount of fluid, provided the mechanism isn’t clogged. So you can definitely know exactly what dose is in each spray. But that assumes you have pure h. Nothing gets wasted. I started with 1mg/spray back when I first started with lab h.

Most street h, even micron filtered, unfortunately clogs the mechanism very quickly. Now I use an eyedropper. It’s not quite as efficient but certainly still works, and is better than smoking or plugging, for me.

One thing you do have to keep in mind whenever you have h in solution: it will break down over time as acetyl groups detach. A more concentrated, more acidic, colder solution will break down more slowly, but you only want it to be very slightly acidic or it will damage your nose. I’ve found the best approach is to only make small amounts of solution at a time - three days worth max.

I have sinus issues and allergies and snorting does not work well for me. Often, I get much of the dose from drip into my stomach. On drugs which have very poor oral availability (example, DPT) I do the same as you. Dissolve in water, tilt head back, and eyedropper a known quantity into the back of my nose. Done carefully, you can feel it spread all through you sinus and go down the throat a little without going all the way down.

 

[fairnymph]

I have sinus issues and allergies and snorting does not work well for me. Often, I get much of the dose from drip into my stomach. On drugs which have very poor oral availability (example, DPT) I do the same as you. Dissolve in water, tilt head back, and eyedropper a known quantity into the back of my nose. Done carefully, you can feel it spread all through you sinus and go down the throat a little without going all the way down.

I have chronic post nasal drip & mysterious clear, viscous liquid in my ears causing them to be congested and painful if I don’t take my antihistamine. And yet I rarely have issues from using h nasally & very little drips down my throat because I’m careful to keep my head tilted back for at least a couple minutes after dosing. A filtered solution is very different from crude powder. I found the best way to filter is actually just via gravity. Take a V shaped shot glass, mix 2-3g h with water (& acid if needed), let sit for 15+ min up to overnight - the cut and any plant material will fall to the bottom, so you can remove the translucent top layer. You can filter that further through a coffee filter or a micron filter, but ime it’s not worth the trouble. Finding a proper V-shaped shot glass that really tapers sharply at the bottom is surprisingly difficult, however.

I also make my own solution of essential oils (eucalyptus, manuka, lavender), manuka, honey, sea salt, and liquid propolis to help de-gunk my ENT. I rarely need it but it works wonderfully.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) is generally 1.5x-2x more potent than Morphine itself. However, this extra potency only applies if the drug is administered by a route that either partially or completely bypasses first-pass metabolism.

Orally administered drugs are subject to complete first-pass metabolism. Basically, Heroin is nearly identical to Morphine in its effects/potency if administered orally. An example of partial bypass is the rectal route of administration.

Both sublingual (under the tongue) and Buccal (the rest of the mouth, like the inside of your cheek) administration will bypass first pass metabolism, meaning the drug should be as potent as if it had been vaporized or injected. Of course, the onset is going to be slower than the aforementioned routes, though the potency should be about the same. The only variable is how much of the drug gets swallowed.

Note: sublingual administration is typically quicker and more efficient than Buccal administration, though both are acceptable for what you're trying to do. I also feel that sublingual administration allows you more control in keeping the drugs in place.

 

[Gray808]

They make very accurate nasal spray bottles that always eject the same known amount of fluid, provided the mechanism isn’t clogged. So you can definitely know exactly what dose is in each spray. But that assumes you have pure h. Nothing gets wasted. I started with 1mg/spray back when I first started with lab h.

Most street h, even micron filtered, unfortunately clogs the mechanism very quickly. Now I use an eyedropper. It’s not quite as efficient but certainly still works, and is better than smoking or plugging, for me.

One thing you do have to keep in mind whenever you have h in solution: it will break down over time as acetyl groups detach. A more concentrated, more acidic, colder solution will break down more slowly, but you only want it to be very slightly acidic or it will damage your nose. I’ve found the best approach is to only make small amounts of solution at a time - three days worth max.

I can end up with very pure product I have a "reliable" (no real trusting anyone in the current market) source and feel that the product I start with is better than most street h and I do confirm via reagent tests and strips that I do have a morphanan opioid and most of it desolves in water its just slightly off white and has a slightly acidic pH Wich seems to say to me that its in salt form I would say hcl but I have no idea (could be leftover vinegar). then I do the whole add a little non toxic acid normally citric, filter, swril with non polar layer preferably nothing toxic I use like kanoloa oil or olive oil or whatever then suck out the water layer and dry it thing Wich gives me a clear or at least clearer solution and white or whiter crystal and oral doses of this final powder as low as 5 mg are psychoactive to me without a tolerance so I don't think it should clog anything I mean everything that's in my final product is soluble in water and isn't something that would rather be desolved in an oil so even if there are impurities they should be water soluble enough to not really cause any problems with that. and ya that is a smart thing to keep in mind I hadn't put too much thought into that the whole degrading in water thing I did know that but in my head it was just like the worst thing that'll happen is it'll just become some percentage 6MAM but of course the acetyl group isn't just magically floating away.

 

[Gray808]

Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) is generally 1.5x-2x more potent than Morphine itself. However, this extra potency only applies if the drug is administered by a route that either partially or completely bypasses first-pass metabolism.

Orally administered drugs are subject to complete first-pass metabolism. Basically, Heroin is nearly identical to Morphine in its effects/potency if administered orally. An example of partial bypass is the rectal route of administration.

Both sublingual (under the tongue) and Buccal (the rest of the mouth, like the inside of your cheek) administration will bypass first pass metabolism, meaning the drug should be as potent as if it had been vaporized or injected. Of course, the onset is going to be slower than the aforementioned routes, though the potency should be about the same. The only variable is how much of the drug gets swallowed.

Note: sublingual administration is typically quicker and more efficient than Buccal administration, though both are acceptable for what you're trying to do. I also feel that sublingual administration allows you more control in keeping the drugs in place.

yes thank you the way I'm looking at it the best options are oral or sublingual but I basically feel bad taking it orally because I know I'm not experiencing the unique effect it has to offer and I genuinely feel like I'm wasting an opportunity but I don't want to damage my body or at least ide like to do as little damage to it as possible and I feel like sublingual might be the kind of middle ground the best of both worlds more comfortable than snorting but faster onset and the actual absorption into the bloodstream of diactyl and 6 monoactyl morphines and potentially less damage to the mucosal lining than nasal spray tho i guess if you have a clean hcl salt in a saline solution it shouldn't really be hurting you but either way I like the idea of sublingual I'm just unable to find reasarch on something like idk put some heroin in a petri dish wish some human saliva and then just analyse it at different points in time to see if the product is degraded by enzymes in the saliva so I didn't know if letting it sit under your tounge might literally destroy the chemical or if maybe it just had worse absorption like an oxycodone type situation where oral bioavailability is actually better than sublingual or intranasal do you have personal experience with it would you say that you need less to achieve the same effect than you would with oral dosing I know in theory that this should be the case but idk something weird and complicated could be happening and other people in here have claimed dissatisfaction with the effects of sublingual h. I know that what your saying is true that in theory it absolutely should be more potent via these routes than by oral but I want to be careful not to waste anything I mean I'm sure you know what the current market is like.

 

[Keif' Richards]

As substances go, Heroin is not particularly hard on soft tissue. Cocaine for instance is definitely harmful to soft tissue, as it cuts off blood supply to the applied area, which over time leads to the death of the tissue. With chronic use, this often develops into severe sinus problems. Likewise, Methamphetamine does not have the same mechanism as Cocaine, though it is definitely caustic to soft tissue, as indicated by the severe burning sensation when insufflated. Heroin is not really in the same league as these two. I'm sure with repeated administration you can irritate your sinuses somewhat, but I've never heard of someone getting say, a collapsed septum as a result of insufflating Heroin.

Furthermore, you can do something that most people overlook; rinse your sinuses after you use the Heroin. This entails snorting your dosage of Heroin, waiting the necessary 15-20 minutes for absorption, then rinsing your sinuses with some warm saline. For this purpose, a Neti Pot is the simplest method in my opinion.

If you're concerned about "enzymes breaking the Heroin down" then think about how drugs survive your saliva and stomach acid while maintaining their effects. The mouth is a pretty tame environment by comparison.

If I were you, I would just make a solution for intranasal use, using saline as the vehicle. It's simpler then trying to do the sublingual route.

 

[Gray808]

ya I guess I'll concede that's the better option idk why I got so invested in this idea of sublingual dosing I guess just the fact that I couldn't learn about it and thought maybe I was on to something.

 

[fairnymph]

I can end up with very pure product I have a "reliable" (no real trusting anyone in the current market) source and feel that the product I start with is better than most street h and I do confirm via reagent tests and strips that I do have a morphanan opioid and most of it desolves in water its just slightly off white and has a slightly acidic pH Wich seems to say to me that its in salt form I would say hcl but I have no idea (could be leftover vinegar). then I do the whole add a little non toxic acid normally citric, filter, swril with non polar layer preferably nothing toxic I use like kanoloa oil or olive oil or whatever then suck out the water layer and dry it thing Wich gives me a clear or at least clearer solution and white or whiter crystal and oral doses of this final powder as low as 5 mg are psychoactive to me without a tolerance so I don't think it should clog anything I mean everything that's in my final product is soluble in water and isn't something that would rather be desolved in an oil so even if there are impurities they should be water soluble enough to not really cause any problems with that. and ya that is a smart thing to keep in mind I hadn't put too much thought into that the whole degrading in water thing I did know that but in my head it was just like the worst thing that'll happen is it'll just become some percentage 6MAM but of course the acetyl group isn't just magically floating away.

Sounds like the very pure h I got in the US. That took months of heavy use to clog my sprayers.

 

[fairnymph]

yes thank you the way I'm looking at it the best options are oral or sublingual but I basically feel bad taking it orally because I know I'm not experiencing the unique effect it has to offer and I genuinely feel like I'm wasting an opportunity but I don't want to damage my body or at least ide like to do as little damage to it as possible and I feel like sublingual might be the kind of middle ground the best of both worlds more comfortable than snorting but faster onset and the actual absorption into the bloodstream of diactyl and 6 monoactyl morphines and potentially less damage to the mucosal lining than nasal spray tho i guess if you have a clean hcl salt in a saline solution it shouldn't really be hurting you but either way I like the idea of sublingual I'm just unable to find reasarch on something like idk put some heroin in a petri dish wish some human saliva and then just analyse it at different points in time to see if the product is degraded by enzymes in the saliva so I didn't know if letting it sit under your tounge might literally destroy the chemical or if maybe it just had worse absorption like an oxycodone type situation where oral bioavailability is actually better than sublingual or intranasal do you have personal experience with it would you say that you need less to achieve the same effect than you would with oral dosing I know in theory that this should be the case but idk something weird and complicated could be happening and other people in here have claimed dissatisfaction with the effects of sublingual h. I know that what your saying is true that in theory it absolutely should be more potent via these routes than by oral but I want to be careful not to waste anything I mean I'm sure you know what the current market is like.

From 14+ yrs personal experience sublingual is definitely better than oral, but oral isn‘t as bad as pure morphine (which makes my pain worse). I assume bc of MAMs.

Nasal is far superior to sublingual however & I don’t seem to have damaged my ENT at all. My chronic issues long predate any drug use.

 

[fairnymph]

As substances go, Heroin is not particularly hard on soft tissue. Cocaine for instance is definitely harmful to soft tissue, as it cuts off blood supply to the applied area, which over time leads to the death of the tissue. With chronic use, this often develops into severe sinus problems. Likewise, Methamphetamine does not have the same mechanism as Cocaine, though it is definitely caustic to soft tissue, as indicated by the severe burning sensation when insufflated. Heroin is not really in the same league as these two. I'm sure with repeated administration you can irritate your sinuses somewhat, but I've never heard of someone getting say, a collapsed septum as a result of insufflating Heroin.

Furthermore, you can do something that most people overlook; rinse your sinuses after you use the Heroin. This entails snorting your dosage of Heroin, waiting the necessary 15-20 minutes for absorption, then rinsing your sinuses with some warm saline. For this purpose, a Neti Pot is the simplest method in my opinion.

If you're concerned about "enzymes breaking the Heroin down" then think about how drugs survive your saliva and stomach acid while maintaining their effects. The mouth is a pretty tame environment by comparison.

If I were you, I would just make a solution for intranasal use, using saline as the vehicle. It's simpler then trying to do the sublingual route.

agree! I rinse between dosing with saline. But just using solution makes a huge difference vs ‘powdered’ unfiltered street solids.