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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Bettle nut questions

B

blackmetalstoner

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
49
So I started working at a Japanese restaurant deep frying deep frying random shit and I've made friends with one of the chiefs. He's Micronesian so he loves his Bettle nut for work and his kava at night. After asking about it he offered me some at work. I really like it(I have some in rn). He's warned me I've very addictive similarly to tabacco. I've tried asking hime more about it but english isn't his first language and it's for him to explain thing or really know what im asking I think because I've yet to get good answers. So how long does this buzz last as for as how many times I can get effective results. He made it seems like this euphorice buzzy feeling would quickly stop happening, is that true? Also, how often should I really do this? I've heard like I stated before that it's additive and I've read about mouth related problems. Plus idk how safe this whole lime stone in my mouth thing is? I mean is that okay? I know its just a mineral but still
 
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Right, Betel Nut is considered to be a huge public health nuisance in its area of popularity, which basically is India to the Pacific Islands. It's very harmful to the health of the user, much like Nicotine is. In fact, the primary active chemical in Betel Nut, called Arecoline, is chemically very similar to Nicotine. I would try to make it a rare indulgence if I were you. It apparently is hamrful to the Kidneys as well.

Kavalactones appear to have a hepatoxit quality to them as well. Previously healthy individuals have presented with liver damage with no other clear cause.

I'm pretty sure the limestone is to aid in the breaking down of the plant matter in some fashion, which would lead me to believe that it's gotta be harmful to your teeth, gums and mouth, but this is pure speculation.
 
So betel nut has no CNS effects other than nicotine like activity? My friend's dad is from Vietnam, moved here in the 1980's sometime and his teeth are permanently stained purple from betel nut chewing, so I figured it might have some psychedelic or stimulant properties, but if it is like nicotine, then that's a waste of time in my opinion!
 
It has a nicotine like stimulation with a slight euphoric effect. It's popular amongst workers in se asia like truckers and construction workers that use it stay awake for extended periods of time, though it does have pretty bad side effects from long term use like oral cancer, teeth falling out, etc,..
 
I dont understand why this is used it is a muscarinic agonist i thought that was the cause of the side effects like dizziness and flushing from nicotine not the reinforcing effects. Ami missing something
 
Now that I think about I take benadyrl (high end of theraputic doses ) with nicotine specifically to block the muscarinic receptors from nicotine so I dont get dizzy before my dextroamphetamine kicks in. So I find it off that a muscarinic stimulator is so reinforcing. You meantioned truck driver or people whp are staying up I could see using muscarinic activators to cause vasodialation if they use stimulants. Does anyone know if its a direct muscarine receptor ligand or indirectly modulating it?
 
IIRC Keif, it is not so much KAVALACTONES that are hepatotoxic per se. The problem, as I understand it, came about when producers of lower grade product tried to get as much out of their goods as possible, and including peelings from the aerial parts of the stem of the plant that unlike the root contain at least two members of the kavalactone family that are indeed hepatotoxic. And true, quality kava or kavalactone extracts from the ROOT of the plant, not including shite like stem peelings or other above-ground portions of Piper methysticum, do not cause liver failure. The traditional use of Kava dates back a long, long time by the indigenes to the areas where it grows, and to the best of my knowledge did not experience liver failure regularly because of it, since they used the root only and not the top parts of the plant/stem. Pipermethystine, an alkaloid present in the above-ground portions of kava pepper plants is highly hepatotoxic, but the fulminant hepatic necrosis that it may cause if ingested is NOT noted amongst traditional pacific island users of kava, who use the root.

The use of aerial parts, stem peelings and leaf matter arose because it was a widely available and dirt cheap byproduct of the kava root industry, so it was extracted and folk tried selling the shit. Only its nasty, highly hepatotoxic shit.


http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/79/1/106.full
n Vitro Toxicity of Kava Alkaloid, Pipermethystine, in HepG2 Cells Compared to Kavalactones

Pratibha V. Nerurkar1, Klaus Dragull and Chung-Shih Tang
Toxicol. Sci. (2004) 79 (1): 106-111.
doi: 10.1093/toxsci/kfh067



https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr...iper+methysticum+stem+peelings+hepatotoxicity
 
Limpet_Chicken said:
IIRC Keif, it is not so much KAVALACTONES that are hepatotoxic per se. The problem, as I understand it, came about when producers of lower grade product tried to get as much out of their goods as possible, and including peelings from the aerial parts of the stem of the plant that unlike the root contain at least two members of the kavalactone family that are indeed hepatotoxic. And true, quality kava or kavalactone extracts from the ROOT of the plant, not including shite like stem peelings or other above-ground portions of Piper methysticum, do not cause liver failure. The traditional use of Kava dates back a long, long time by the indigenes to the areas where it grows, and to the best of my knowledge did not experience liver failure regularly because of it, since they used the root only and not the top parts of the plant/stem. Pipermethystine, an alkaloid present in the above-ground portions of kava pepper plants is highly hepatotoxic, but the fulminant hepatic necrosis that it may cause if ingested is NOT noted amongst traditional pacific island users of kava, who use the root.

The use of aerial parts, stem peelings and leaf matter arose because it was a widely available and dirt cheap byproduct of the kava root industry, so it was extracted and folk tried selling the shit. Only its nasty, highly hepatotoxic shit.


http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/79/1/106.full
n Vitro Toxicity of Kava Alkaloid, Pipermethystine, in HepG2 Cells Compared to Kavalactones

Pratibha V. Nerurkar1, Klaus Dragull and Chung-Shih Tang
Toxicol. Sci. (2004) 79 (1): 106-111.
doi: 10.1093/toxsci/kfh067



https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr...iper+methysticum+stem+peelings+hepatotoxicity
Click to expand...

This is true. Noble kava root powder isn't going to cause any appreciable hepatotoxicity, although kavalactones do inhibit a lot of liver enzymes.

That said, no one has nailed down specifically what has caused the liver failure, but it's been associated with consumption of contaminated root, extracts that used questionable sources for their kava (likely processing the entire plants), and combining these products with other drugs that are hepatotoxic.

Also, betel nut is not a good habit to start. It's akin to smoking tobacco.
 
Slow_Mobius said:
This is true. Noble kava root powder isn't going to cause any appreciable hepatotoxicity, although kavalactones do inhibit a lot of liver enzymes.

That said, no one has nailed down specifically what has caused the liver failure, but it's been associated with consumption of contaminated root, extracts that used questionable sources for their kava (likely processing the entire plants), and combining these products with other drugs that are hepatotoxic.

Also, betel nut is not a good habit to start. It's akin to smoking tobacco.
Click to expand...

Very interesting from both Slow and Limpet. I wasn't aware of the varying qualities of this stuff. I had actually kind of, subconsciously avoided it, as I had thought that it was hepatoxic and I am Hep C positive, but this has kind of spurred me to do some research on the stuff! I just read a short article and apparently there's a Kava of such high quality that it is not allowed off the island of Vanuatu and is only used for religious ceremonies. If this information is some kind of marketin scheme to get me over there to use their drugs, they have an effective strategy.

But yea, Bettle Nut isn't Nicotine per se, it's more like, it's effects are so mild and transient that you can compare it to the buzz you'd get from a cigarette. When you say "truckers use it", how many truckers do you see cranking butts or with a wad in their mouth. It's more just different cultures in my opinion. Their useless, addictive substance is the nut, while ours is tobacco.
 
I dont think people are aware you can get bad batches of herbs. And it seems alot harder to test then say a compound. I wish there. Was like a third party that tested all the kava batches and releases there contents so it could be more clear. Because I know . I've bought kava because figures hey it looks like a herb and just plopped it in water.
 
Keif' Richards said:
But yea, Bettle Nut isn't Nicotine per se, it's more like, it's effects are so mild and transient that you can compare it to the buzz you'd get from a cigarette. When you say "truckers use it", how many truckers do you see cranking butts or with a wad in their mouth. It's more just different cultures in my opinion. Their useless, addictive substance is the nut, while ours is tobacco.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It's not similar to nicotine in how it works, but it's basically another useless addiction. Smoking tobacco is only popular because it's so ingrained in western culture that it's one of the few legal "highs" if you can even call it that, despite the carcinogenic, addictive nature of the practice. The betel nut is another legal high that's ingrained in certain cultures and it causes its own multitude of health issues.
 
d1nach said:
I dont think people are aware you can get bad batches of herbs. And it seems alot harder to test then say a compound. I wish there. Was like a third party that tested all the kava batches and releases there contents so it could be more clear. Because I know . I've bought kava because figures hey it looks like a herb and just plopped it in water.
Click to expand...

There actually is. An association called True Kava certifies that certain companies are selling noble kava root powder. There's also another association (can't remember off the top of my head) that quantifies kavalactone content of kava root from many many vendors. Also, many of the better vendors will tell you the chemotype of the different roots they're selling.
 
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