benzodiazepine vs thienodiazepine potency/enjoyment

[black53]

Is there any general rule which is more potent and fun? Or is it not that simple. For example:

flunitrazepam, flunitrazolam and their thienodiazepine analogues. Do we know enough about the benzo/thienodiazepine SAR to say which would be the best?

I know that when comparing the -mazepam vs -mazolam versions of benzos. The ones with the triazolo ring are generally more potent, have shorter half lifes and are considered 'better' by most (diazepam vs diazolam (aka alprazolam), diclazepam vs triazolam, flubromazepam vs flubromazolam, ..). I don't think that there are any thienodiazepine analogues of benzos where the properties of both are well documented.

 

[sekio]

I don't think you can go from structures to saying "this one is fun" but in general triazolo compounds are more... abusable than the other benzos. C.f. the amount of Xanax, triazolam, and midazolam abuse over drugs like Valium, chlordiazepoxide, clonazepam. Etizolam and its cousin deschloroetizolam are there too. I think temazepam is the odd one out - it's one of the only 1,4 benzodiazepines that is abused significantly. That and Valium.

The big names in abusable BZDs as far as I know are alprazolam, triazolam, diazepam, temazepam, maybe flunitrazepam. Stuff with a fast onset and fairly short duration. Less people abuse clonazepam on its own for fun. Water solubility and low volume of distribution seem to be key factors.

This is also why phenazepam (basically bromo-clonazepam) is not considered a fun xanax replacer but etizolam is.

 

[black53]

I think that in general you can say that the triazolos are more 'fun', more potent and shorter lasting than the 1-4 benzos. I also think that a Fluorine on the bottom phenyl and a N2O on the upper phenyl are good substitutions (I'm sure there are exceptions but that's SAR for you). But a benzodiazepine vs a thienodiazepine with the same substitutions, that I have no idea which is better (if there even is a general rule).



There's also a way to make them able to form salts that are freely soluble in water ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adinazolam , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flurazepam ) which I think slightly reduces potency, but doesn't change the effects that much.

 

[DL-ark]

I don't think you can go from structures to saying "this one is fun" but in general triazolo compounds are more... abusable than the other benzos. C.f. the amount of Xanax, triazolam, and midazolam abuse over drugs like Valium, chlordiazepoxide, clonazepam. Etizolam and its cousin deschloroetizolam are there too. I think temazepam is the odd one out - it's one of the only 1,4 benzodiazepines that is abused significantly. That and Valium.

The big names in abusable BZDs as far as I know are alprazolam, triazolam, diazepam, temazepam, maybe flunitrazepam. Stuff with a fast onset and fairly short duration. Less people abuse clonazepam on its own for fun. Water solubility and low volume of distribution seem to be key factors.

This is also why phenazepam (basically bromo-clonazepam) is not considered a fun xanax replacer but etizolam is.

But clonazepam tastes a lot more fun than alprazolam!

 

[SONN]

It says on wikipedia Etizolam is a full agonist at the benzo receptor, could that be why it seemed to be way funner than xanax and made me start forgetting everything way quicker?