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Ayahuasca: Group vs Individual ceremonies

V

vronsky

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
6
Hey guys,

I've been experimenting with psychedelics (sclerotia, lsd and 2c-b) this year, mainly on my own. I had some interesting experiences, but I did not have a real breakthrough insightful experience yet. The last 2 times I took higher doses (on my own), but I totally freaked out (panic attacks). I concluded that it might be better to do my inner journey under guidance next time in stead of on my own.

Unfortunately I don't have any friends with an interest in psychedelics so I have to go with a professional. The easiest way to get a supervised trip in my country (the Netherlands) is to participate in an ayahuasca ceremony.

I've done some research and I understand that it is possible to do sessions in groups but also individually. I'm kind of a person that is more introvert, so I would say I like small groups better and an individual session would be best. But individual ceremonies seem to be kind of pricey. Does anyone have experiences with individual ceremonies? Did they provide you any benefit over a group session? What about group size?

I think a small group (max 5) might be better than a bigger group (10 or 12 people) for me, because I'm an introvert. But on the other hand in a big group I will be more anonymous maybe, which might make my experience more private. What do you guys think? Any other things that I need to take into account when I'm picking a venue to join a ceremony? Is the environment important?

Also I'm an atheist. Should I take into account the religious views of the MC's?

Let me know.
 
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vronsky said:
Also I'm an atheist. Should I take into account the religious views of the MC's?
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Being an atheist myself, I don't think I could attend a "typical" Ayahuasca ceremony.

Wayyyyy too much esoteric mysticism involved. I mean, I cringe everytime someone refers to a drug as a "teacher". Having people ramble about spirit realms and third eyes, and spouting various McKenna-isms sounds like just about the opposite of a good setting to me.
 
Hodor said:
Being an atheist myself, I don't think I could attend a "typical" Ayahuasca ceremony.

Wayyyyy too much esoteric mysticism involved. I mean, I cringe everytime someone refers to a drug as a "teacher". Having people ramble about spirit realms and third eyes, and spouting various McKenna-isms sounds like just about the opposite of a good setting to me.
Click to expand...
A real shaman teaches you to listen to yourself and respect the earth. Bs shamans focus on the mysticism and multiverse aspect.
 
Maybe you're dosing too high. Dosing with psychedelics is a lot like snow skiing - you don't attempt the highest ski run at first. Instead, start small and inch forward. When you reach your point of comfortable psychedelic equilibrium (baseline), do that same amount several times to validate the result, and advance no more than 1/4 tab after that. Bear in mind that combining weed with psychedelics is like walking on thin ice for many people. It doesn't matter if you are an experienced smoker, they interact with each other strongly. There is always a risk.

My personal feeling is that you are always better off tripping with people you know and trust. If, however, you must go with others, I suggest a small, intimate group of gentle, caring persons.
 
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@Hodor: Indeed, I have the same considerations. I emailed several venues with the question (among other questions): do you think your ceremony is suitable for me as an atheist. The all gave the sheepish answer: "Yes, our ceremonies are not linked to religion. As an atheist you are welcome, as people from any religion are welcome". But when I look on their website some indeed include supernatural BS like stones with energy fields and blabla. I guess I have to form an impression myself and go with the venue that seems the least supernatural.

@tacodude: I'm not entirely against mysticism, I think mysticism can be experienced by an atheist without the need for supernatural explanations. Sam Harris explained this in his book. Also, I respect traditions, so if a ceremony is done in a certain way because of traditions I'm okay with that. I can also look at the supernatural terminology as a sort of metaphor instead of taking it literally

@mr peabody: previously I had tripped on 22 grams of sclerotia, another time 1 tab (150mics) of LSD, and another time on 1 pill of 2c-b and 2 pills of 2c-b (12-15 mg each) and no problems. The first time I had a bad trip was on 2c-b of which 1 took 3 pills (of 12-15 each). This probably was an overdose. It was terrifying and I thought I was losing my mind/having a heart attack. A month later I tried half a tab of lsd (so 75 mics). It started out okay, but after some time the same fear started to creep up again and I was having a bad trip again. So I concluded it would be best to have supervision next time :).
 
I'm not against mysticism it's just about whether one goes about it as fact or an understanding
 
Welcome to Bluelight Vromsky!

I’m also a convinced atheist and have an academic background in biochemistry and neuroscience, so I understand very well when you are talking about supernatural BS and religious/mystical type agendas.

The only high dosage supervised session I would have is with somebody I know very well. I would expect from that person (in my case it was my ex-wife who is a nurse) to bring me water, guide me to the bathroom, make sure to keep the house quiet, reassure me if necessary that I am under the influence of a drug and the effects will be over in X hours, make sure I wouldn’t behave in a way that could be dangerous, bring me to an ER if something goes very wrong…and above all to stay out of the way unless I ask for something or obviously need assistance and can’t ask for it. The more she ever had to do was holding me in her arms and play CDs of soft soothing music.

IMO, all the ayahuasca groups and their guides have agendas and will try to steer you in a more or less subtle manner.

Try lower doses, if that doesn’t work maybe psychedelics are not for you.
 
You might find that challenging yourself to a ceremony attended by a lot of people might unlock the sort of transcendent experience you are seeking..... what if you meet someone special who has an effect on you? What if just the energy of positivity coming off the group helps you to let down your walls and open up in a good way... just be open
 
The idea of those ceremonies makes me cringe.
Between the shaman who thinks s/he knows better and the participants eager to buy the esoteric bs...

It may be better for you to buy it from a smart shop (cheap), and ask a friend to be your sitter. S/he would agree to stay in the next room for the whole session without bothering you, unless called. If you felt like calling her/him, her/his role would not be to sing to the spirits or other annoying bs, but simply to be here, and show by her/his presence with barely a few words that eventually, the trip would end within a couple hours and you'd be safe.

Mind you, I'm open to pretty far-fetched ideas, but only when they rely on interesting reasoning. As atheists, let's not encourage the business of lies.
 
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