Ayahuasca 14 day rule vs Harmala Alkaloid MAOI half life

[bluew]

It's widely advised to stay off SSRIs and plenty of other drugs for at least 14 days after ingesting the brew.


Yet my research indicates Harmine, the main Harmala Alkaloid in Aya, has a half life of less than 3 hours in the blood [1] (and is removed from the brain even faster [2]). Harmaline, which is present in much lower quantities, is not much different. And THH, the third and last alkaloid, is apparently not even a MAOI.


What accounts for this discrepancy? I.e. why the suggestion for 14 days instead of, say, 24 hours which should be enough to reduce the amount of MAOI to (since 24/3 = 8 ) (1/2)^8 = .0039 * the peak amount.

Is it possible the 14 day rule is radically conservative?


[1] See last figure of Callaway, James C., et al. "Quantitation of N, N-dimethyltryptamine and harmala alkaloids in human plasma after oral dosing with ayahuasca." Journal of Analytical Toxicology 20.6 (1996): 492-497. ( available currently at http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/6/492.full.pdf )
[2] https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/ayahuasca_apa/aya_sec1_rodentmetabolism.shtml

 

[phuckingnutz]

Where, exactly, is that "highly recommended"...you want to get off the SSRI's prior to doing the MAOI, but not the other way around...I call bullshit on that.

 

[Goddess Mode]

There is no 14 day rule for ayahuasca. That rule was designed for pharmaceutical MAOIs which work by completely disabling monoamine oxidase enzymes, permanently. Because of that your body needs time to recycle them before normal oxidase activity is returned, and that takes about 14 days. Harmala alkaloids are on the other hand reversible, and, as you said, are out of your body within a few hours. As a safety rule I probably still wouldn't take anything serotonergic for the rest of the day after the trip and maybe the next day too for good measure, but even that would be extra cautious. Harmalas are actually significantly safer than pharmaceutical MAOIs in several ways, maybe except for moclobemide. There are potential dangers with them, but not this.

 

[Ismene]

I didn't think moclobemide disabled anything permanently - isn't the half-life about 6 hours?

 

[Goddess Mode]

^ That's why I said maybe except for moclobemide.

 

[bluew]

There is no 14 day rule for ayahuasca. That rule was designed for pharmaceutical MAOIs which work by completely disabling monoamine oxidase enzymes, permanently.

Thank you for clearing this up for me. I wasn't careful enough in my research to distinguish "permanent" and nonpermanent MAOIs and saw the recommendations a number of places for the 14 day MAOI washout which was for the permanent variety. Then conflated that as a recommendation for post-aya caution.

This makes life after a ceremony much easier than I had originally imagined. Cheers.

 

[red22]

The MAO inhibition of irreversible MAOIs can last up to 40 days, based on some cursory reading:

After the administration of a therapeutic dose (5–10 mg), the peak plasma concentration is reached within 30–120 min; 90% is bound to plasma proteins [60,62,63]. Within 30–90 min, platelet MAO-B activity is inhibited by 90% in PD patients, indicative of rapid cellular uptake; recovery of activity requires as long as 40 days [14,64].

14. Fowler JS, Volkow ND, Logan J, Wang GJ, MacGregor RR, Schyler D, Wolf AP, Pappas N, Alexoff D, Shea C. Slow recovery of human brain MAO-B after l-deprenyl (selegiline) withdrawal. Synapse 1994;18:86–93. DOWNLOAD

64. Riederer P, Youdim MBH, Rausch WD, Birkmayer W, Jellinger K, Seemann D. On the mode of action of l-deprenyl in the human central nervous system. Journal of Neural Transmission 1978;43:217–26. DOWNLOAD

Foley P, Gerlach M, Youdim MB, Riederer P. MAO-B inhibitors: multiple roles in the therapy of neurodegenerative disorders. Parkinsonism Related Disorders, 6(1):25-47. DOWNLOAD


Thanks to libgen.org for the downloads.

 

[Goddess Mode]

That is MAO-B. The diet and serotonergic worries only apply to MAO-A. Though, it is interesting to know that for concerns about taking phenethylamines....

 

[red22]

I know. But maybe MAO-A can also take longer than two weeks to recover.