(ATTN) Prefixes are mandatory for all questions regarding empathogens

[MagickalKat777]

Hi everybody, I am happy to say that we now have two new prefixes! Along with these comes a new implementation of posting guidelines.

When you go to make a new post, you will see a Prefix box like so

From this point forward, as part of our commitment to harm reduction, all posts regarding MDMA or another empathogenic drug that has been or will be taken and is not explicitly a social post (which should only be in the Cuddle Puddle, our official social thread anyway), will be required to have a prefix designated whether or not the substance or pill has been tested. There will be no exceptions to this rule.

Any post found to not have a prefix will be assumed to be untested and will have the (untested) prefix manually applied by a moderator. In order to get this removed, you will need to PM a moderator and explain that it was reagent tested or state so in the thread.

This is a harm reduction rule and it will be strictly enforced. Drugs that are included in this rule are MDMA, MDA, MDE, and any substance that someone identifies as "Molly" or another slang term, including E or ecstasy.

If you use the (tested) prefix, you must state in your post that you tested and what the results were. It would be helpful, but is not required, if you state whether or not you used a reagent after using the marquis reagent (mandelin, mecke, simons, robadope, etc) as some substances that come up positive for MDXX on marquis may in fact be something else. This is not a requirement though.

Research chemicals that are identified by name (6-APB, 5-MAPB, methylone, etc) will not be required to be labeled but you may label them should you choose but only if you tested them with a FULL test kit (marquis, mecke, and mandelin at a minimum) as these substances don't have reliable testing with just marquis.

In the case that you are posting from the mobile site, just state in your thread that you are on mobile and whether it is/was tested or untested and a mod will add the appropriate prefix for you otherwise, your post will be marked (untested) like any other post without a prefix and no testing details.

Situations that require the use of this prefix would include

Rolling this weekend and have a few questions

Pills having weird effects?

Longterm comedown... help?

Those are just a few examples. Generally speaking, it should be easy to figure out if you need a prefix.

Thanks everyone, happy and safe rolling to you!

 

[MagickalKat777]

Please familiarize yourselves with this rule and if you have any questions, post them here. I am going to keep this open for a week for questions, comments, and concerns before implementing it as a sticky and adding it to the official rules of the forum.

 

[Folley]

You really expect people to test things with a Marquis, Mecke AND Mandelin?


I could see 2 out of the three, but I've never even seen a mandelin kit in real life. Honestly a Simons kit would be MUCH more useful as it identifies Primary from Secondary amines.

 

[badrobot114]

You really expect people to test things with a Marquis, Mecke AND Mandelin?


I could see 2 out of the three, but I've never even seen a mandelin kit in real life. Honestly a Simons kit would be MUCH more useful as it identifies Primary from Secondary amines.

I agree, Simon's is much more preferable. I'd consider a test with Simon's alone to be more than thorough enough. If it turned blue, you know you have MDMA period.

 

[MagickalKat777]

You really expect people to test things with a Marquis, Mecke AND Mandelin?


I could see 2 out of the three, but I've never even seen a mandelin kit in real life. Honestly a Simons kit would be MUCH more useful as it identifies Primary from Secondary amines.

I made it pretty clear that it is ONLY for research chemicals that there is such a requirement IF they wish to provide test kit results:

Research chemicals that are identified by name (6-APB, 5-MAPB, methylone, etc) will not be required to be labeled but you may label them should you choose but only if you tested them with a FULL test kit (marquis, mecke, and mandelin at a minimum) as these substances don't have reliable testing with just marquis.

If you are going to post test results from a research chemical, you should have a full kit because testing kits are not reliable for a single reagent with research chemicals which makes testing useless without a full test kit. I don't see the harm in that being a rule, especially seeing that research chemical test results are optional?

 

[MagickalKat777]

I agree, Simon's is much more preferable. I'd consider a test with Simon's alone to be more than thorough enough. If it turned blue, you know you have MDMA period.

Incorrect. Any secondary amine, including meth, can cause a reaction with Simons. This is why you run marquis first to determine what family of amine you are working with.

Meth, MDMA, MDEA, and methylone will all cause the same color change with Simons, also PMMA will too.

By the way, I know what you were trying to say but if taken out of context someone reading the post that didn't know any better might assume they only need a Simons test.

I went ahead and modified the rules to make it clearer. I moved the part about research chemicals to its own paragraph after finishing the statement about MDMA. Is that better? I'm not changing the rules on research chemicals. If you're going to post about a research chemical and say that you tested it, you need to post what reagents were used and what their reactions were. Otherwise, don't use a prefix or mark it untested. Research chemicals aren't required to use a prefix at this time so if people don't like that part of the rule, as it stands right now, they can skip the prefix for research chemicals only.

 

[Folley]

I understood perfectly, but Dancesafe doesn't even sell a mandelin kit so most US customers won't have one. Calling for multiple kits is fine in my book, but it seemed that you were saying it had to be tested by all three kits: marquis, mecke and mandelin.



Really, if you're testing a 6-APB type research chemical you will likely need the Simons. 5/6-APB and most of it's cousins are analogues of MDA, which means they're primary amines and won't react to a Simons kit. x-MAPBs however are secondary amines which means they will react, those are the only ones I can think of but I'm sure there are others.

I agree, Simon's is much more preferable. I'd consider a test with Simon's alone to be more than thorough enough. If it turned blue, you know you have MDMA period.

Not really. It needs to be used in conjunction with a marquis kit at the least.

 

[MagickalKat777]

I understood perfectly, but Dancesafe doesn't even sell a mandelin kit so most US customers won't have one. Calling for multiple kits is fine in my book, but it seemed that you were saying it had to be tested by all three kits: marquis, mecke and mandelin.

Their complete kit has Mandelin. Its marquis, mandelin, mecke, and simons.

As I said, if people don't have a complete kit, they don't currently have to post test results. This is an HR rule. If we were to allow people to post test results with just marquis for research chemicals, it defeats the purpose. Marquis is better than nothing for MDMA and its cousins but it is not acceptable for research chemicals. If you're concerned enough to actually reagent test your research chemicals then you would have the full kit anyway so that rule may be a moot point in that case. Marquis, mecke, and mandelin will at least show the difference between different substances if you use all three. Simons is only useful if you're looking to differentiate between primary and secondary amines. In the case of a research chemical, this isn't as important as overall differentiation so that's why I put those three as a minimum. If you can show me examples where marquis and simons is superior to marquis, mecke, and mandelin as described, I'll consider taking it back for additional mod discussion.

This rule is not to make things easier on people, it is meant to make things safer. The small investment in a complete kit is a huge investment in terms of your health when doing all sorts of substances and eventually its possible that there may be a roll out of mandatory prefixes for research chemicals as well if we as mods decide to do so. As of right now, if you don't want to test your research chemicals properly, you can use the untested prefix or use no prefix at all.

 

[Pretty_Diamonds]

I'm like totally confused.

 

[Folley]

Their complete kit has Mandelin. Its marquis, mandelin, mecke, and simons.

As I said, if people don't have a complete kit, they don't currently have to post test results. This is an HR rule. If we were to allow people to post test results with just marquis for research chemicals, it defeats the purpose. Marquis is better than nothing for MDMA and its cousins but it is not acceptable for research chemicals. If you're concerned enough to actually reagent test your research chemicals then you would have the full kit anyway so that rule may be a moot point in that case. Marquis, mecke, and mandelin will at least show the difference between different substances if you use all three. Simons is only useful if you're looking to differentiate between primary and secondary amines. In the case of a research chemical, this isn't as important as overall differentiation so that's why I put those three as a minimum. If you can show me examples where marquis and simons is superior to marquis, mecke, and mandelin as described, I'll consider taking it back for additional mod discussion.

This rule is not to make things easier on people, it is meant to make things safer. The small investment in a complete kit is a huge investment in terms of your health when doing all sorts of substances and eventually its possible that there may be a roll out of mandatory prefixes for research chemicals as well if we as mods decide to do so. As of right now, if you don't want to test your research chemicals properly, you can use the untested prefix or use no prefix at all.

6-APB is a PERFECT example. It will react almost exactly the same as MDMA expect for the Simons test. Same with most of it's analogues.



Two kits is likely going to be enough for most chemicals, MDMA analogues don't exactly have varying reactions from Marquis to Mecke to Mandelin. To be completely honest, even with a complete testing kit you're not going to be able to truly identify say 5-APB from 6-APB. Only a lab test will really be able to identify these new drugs, and some of the REALLY new ones haven't even had their GC/MS results recorded yet

 

[MagickalKat777]

Ummm... 6-APB is an analog of MDA so yeah, its going to be hard to differentiate 6-APB from MDMA just like it is hard to do so with MDA. You're basically just giving me fuel to change the rule to include Simons now.

Here's the thing. If someone wants to post about weird effects from a research chemical, they can feel free as long as they put the name that came on the bag. IF they choose to test the research chemical, they need to use a full test kit and supply their results or they may not use the tested prefix. What is so difficult about that? We are not saying that they can not post if they didn't test, we aren't even requiring any sort of testing. The only thing that is being asked is if you wish to use the tested prefix, you must use a complete test kit and supply the results. We could very easily just say "research chemicals may not use a prefix" and end it right there.

Oh and FYI, 6-APB, MDE, MDMA, and MDA all have slightly different Mandelin reactions, they're just so similar that its best to use simons for a confirmation.

 

[badrobot114]

Incorrect. Any secondary amine, including meth, can cause a reaction with Simons. This is why you run marquis first to determine what family of amine you are working with.

Meth, MDMA, MDEA, and methylone will all cause the same color change with Simons, also PMMA will too.

By the way, I know what you were trying to say but if taken out of context someone reading the post that didn't know any better might assume they only need a Simons test.

I went ahead and modified the rules to make it clearer. I moved the part about research chemicals to its own paragraph after finishing the statement about MDMA. Is that better? I'm not changing the rules on research chemicals. If you're going to post about a research chemical and say that you tested it, you need to post what reagents were used and what their reactions were. Otherwise, don't use a prefix or mark it untested. Research chemicals aren't required to use a prefix at this time so if people don't like that part of the rule, as it stands right now, they can skip the prefix for research chemicals only.

Meth causes a red/greed reaction from Simon's, as opposed to MDMA that causes a blue reaction. Primary amines cause no color change(non methylated amphetamine and MDA for example). My apologies though, I didn't notice you meant RCs when requiring multiple kits for testing.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Meth causes a red/greed reaction from Simon's, as opposed to MDMA that causes a blue reaction. Primary amines cause no color change(non methylated amphetamine and MDA for example). My apologies though, I didn't notice you meant RCs when requiring multiple kits for testing.

Are you sure about that re: meth and simons? I could have sworn that simons only had no reaction or turned blue because of the reagent reaction.

And yeah, RCs only. I moved some things around in the post to make it clear in the future.

 

[badrobot114]

Yep, quite positive about that. I might be wrong about the color, but Meth definitely doesn't turn blue with Simon's. I actually tested some Meth with it on Saturday hehe.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Yep, quite positive about that. I might be wrong about the color, but Meth definitely doesn't turn blue with Simon's. I actually tested some Meth with it on Saturday hehe.

Hrmm... I've only ever heard of it turning cobalt blue. The reagent bottle A is tinted reddish itself though I think. I haven't had access to or a need for a test kit for years since I have been being good lately. You sure it just didn't react? I looked up the reaction and the only color it is supposed to turn is cobalt blue if there is a secondary amine present.

Are you sure that it wasn't mandelin? With mandelin meth turns yellow/green if I remember correctly. Otherwise I have no idea. I've heard of odd reactions when something else is present that screws up the test, maybe that's the case.

 

[badrobot114]

That's what the Simon's instruction sheet says. Again, not 100% positive about Green/Red for Meth, but absolutely positive that it doesn't turn blue like MDMA and that primary amines don't change color at all.

Edit: yep you're right magicalkat, Simon's turns dark blue for Meth as well.

 

[JWills20]

This discussion is all kind of pointless. I think the main point is that the chemical ingested was either tested and thus an indicator of what was actually taken, or it wasn't. We can then give advice from there.

 

[MagickalKat777]

This discussion is all kind of pointless. I think the main point is that the chemical ingested was either tested and thus an indicator of what was actually taken, or it wasn't. We can then give advice from there.

That's pretty much my standpoint on the issue as well.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

chemists will always find a way around these BS reagent color change tests if they want to. not that many people are out to form RC mixtures that can pass off as the real thing. If our government really gave two fucks about us they would allow NMR testing by legit businesses. despite an NMR costing half a MIL, taking a single NMR sample costs pennies, probably thousands to tens of thousands of NMR samples are analyzed daily chinese students working for 1$ per hour in US universities (and pharma companies!!) as "students" because they are willing to work 19 hours a day 365 days a year.....99% of these analysis are done on worthless sludges of chemicals that will never amount to a shred of important scientific information. seems like we should have room for some legal form of 100% reliable sample analysis to save our children's lives. ....oh wait, either everybody is 1) too stupid and jesus-based to understand the significance of my point or 2) some loser drugee that deserves death from some poison they are taking