know what works ?
for what snotting each other.
give me a sword a bow or a couple of sticks and ill out snot the lot of ya.
so what ?
MMA has brought martial arts to the level of it is only about fighting and if your not that then its not for you or as you have seen you get lost trying to be that.
the ancient practices that people are stating here as life saving like many meditations and exercises for focus and connection are all based on some kind of martial art.
the idea that one needs to compete to practice or that it is the ultimate goal takes from all of the aspects of the arts that were originally there.
wing chun does not need kickboxing or boxing.
its not a sport and never was.
as for most kung fu its depth goes a lot further than just can I beat this dude up in a gym.
empathy humility connection with reality and respect are some of the main focuses on practising a traditional art.
and the most practice martial art in the world most would not even know you could fight with it.
TAI CHI.
we are getting older by the second if you only measure the art by its fight you may not wish to practice in the future and all of the true benefits
like helping with movement dure in ageing will be lost.
as of yet I have not seen a kid bully another with wing chun though I have seen little girls kick the shit out of sex pests at train stations with it.
good enough for me.
It's fine that you feel that way you feel, I just don't agree.
There's a very big difference between MMA and the arts that have been found to work in it and the old world of asian martial arts and yes, spirituality has been linked to those old ways through arts like Kung Fu and Karate and I would agree that some of that has unfortunately been lost in the modern MMA world, but who says you need to practice spirituality and martial arts together? As mentioned, I am into the Wim Hof Method which in many ways comes from Yoga and probably has much in common with some of the breathing techniques of Kung Fu, and more and MMA fighters and BJJ guys are practicing it. Rickson Gracie is very into Yoga and does breathing exercises, and I got my purple belt from a guy who has a school that teaches BJJ and Yoga together.
I never said Wing Chun needs boxing or Kickboxing, but it tends to fair better under MMA rules with some of those elements added because of the unique rule set and gloves.
To be honest, I'm sure you know that Wing Chun was one of Bruce Lee's favorite arts and yet, Dana White, UFC president, rightfully calls Bruce "the father of MMA" because he was VERY against traditionalism and believed in discarding whatever was impractical and adding what worked. That's why he also practiced some arts that are used today in MMA like: boxing, Muay Thai, Catch Wrestling and Judo, as well as Kali which is the go to weapon art for MMA guys.
If Bruce Lee were alive today he'd be a supporter of MMA and probably even have been a fighter if he was young enough. The funny thing is, people today see him as some traditionalist but he was RADICAL for his time and did NOT like all the katas and impractical movements practiced in so many ancient martial arts!! He said it over and over again in the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, so it's a bit odd that you respect Bruce Lee but not MMA because he'd almost certainly have been a supporter. He said take whatever works and combine it and wasn't really into all the old ways.
***In fact, MANY traditional martial artists were PISSED OFF at Bruce Lee in the 60s and 70s cause they thought he was "ruining the culture" just like people think of MMA today!! It's very interesting how some traditional martial artists are history revisionists and think Bruce Lee was really into katas and old school stuff, but he wasn't. HE WAS ALL ABOUT PRACTICALITY.
Also, many Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu guys are humble and do combine some spirituality in their teaching and stress that the art is not about hurting others. Royce used to be proud of being able to win fights without even throwing a single strike, just taking them down and choking them, and BJJ is my core art. I practiced Kenpo, Karate for 7 years as a kid and got to 2nd degree brown belt but it wasn't practical. I have also crossed trained in boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai and MMA but I'm not that great at any of them.
As far as what you seem to be saying about "we are getting older by the second if you only measure the art by the fight and may not wish to continue, etc" if what you are saying is that people who are into MMA and BJJ won't train as they get older, that's far from true.
Helio Gracie trained till he died at age 99. I have known people training in their 60s, and their are age divisions for BJJ at every tournament I go to, for guys in 40s, 50s and even 60s. BJJ is often called "the gentle art" because you don't need strength and can win without hurting the opponent.
Why do I mention BJJ so much? Because it's my core art, and also the art that started MMA with Royce Gracie in UFC 1, who I personally took many seminars with as a teenager and who gave me the 1st 2 stripes on my blue belt.
"Traditionalists" also ignore the VAST history of WESTERN martial arts. There was the Pankration and wrestling and greek boxing of ancient Greece, there was Lancashire Catch as Catch Can wrestling in England, as well as Savate in France, Greco Roman wrestling, boxing used to be an art that included weapons like the fencing sword and cudgel and allowed grappling and kicks. Yet all of this is ignored by traditionalists who only like the Eastern arts and think that all martial arts came from the east. Well, that's just not true. Ancient Greece had arts just as long ago as China and Japan.
Most of the time, arts like BJJ, wrestling, boxing and Muay Thai are NOT used to bully people, and if the wrong person learned Wing Chun they could most certainly bully someone with it.
So really, I don't understand this post. I have heard this kind of thing many times where practitioners of old asian arts get very very upset about MMA because they think it's "ruining the martial arts." In fact, my highschool math teacher believed this same thing as he trained in Karate but yet, he had never fought in his life so he didn't know if it would work, and chances are he didn't know how to fight despite being a black belt. We politely agreed to disagree on MMA, and he was always one of the best teachers I'd ever had.
It almost seems like you think I'm insulting you or your martial art, but I'm not: there's enough room in the world for all the ancient eastern martial arts and all the modern arts practiced in MMA. You can practice what you want, and we can practice what we want.
If you are upset that your art hasn't worked in MMA, then I don't know what to tell you, but Anderson Silva has used some Wing Chun in MMA, and I believe it's a good art.
And like I said, good teachers like mine are good examples for their kids and my instructor has a rule that none of his child students can get their next BJJ belt unless they have a B average in school or better and do community service on top of being worthy of the belt.
It is up to the teacher to instill any values he/she wants into the art, and values CAN exist in modern day MMA. I don't like many of the MMA fans or many of the meaner more bully-ish MMA fighters as much as you do, but that's only SOME of them. They aren't all like that.
So yeah...it just seems like these days all the traditionalists are very upset about MMA, but there's nothing I can do about that. It was really only a matter of time before people would get together and put these arts together and fight on a bigger stage and of course with cable TV and the internet people would watch and not all of them would be respectful but that's just life. I mean it happened in ancient Greece, and it also happened in ancient Japan, but we just didn't have TV or the internet then. If we did, it would all be the same.
I don't necessarily believe MMA and BJJ and these arts are "all about fighting" as they can teach other values, but I mean, they are MOSTLY because that's what MARTIAL means, it means WAR. That's why there are "marshalls" in the Army. That's where it comes from. Nevertheless,
many a street kid has been saved from his abusive home life by arts like boxing, wrestling and BJJ. Tito Ortiz said he'd be dead if not for wrestling cause it kept him away from gang life. Boxing has helped more young african americans and Mexicans to avoid lives of crime than can possibly be mentioned, and in the Favellas of Brazil many many MMA fighters and BJJ black belts have escaped INTOLERABLY VIOLENT SITUATIONS by practicing their art and having an outlet for their aggression and made it into a career.
There are "beat the streets" wrestling programs in school and in boxing gyms where people find kids who have a lot of aggression and teach them to channel it and save their lives. It isn't only Asian arts that can do this.
I am not insulting your art or traditional arts, I am just saying that SOME of them (particularly Aikido) do not hold up to a lot of real life combat, and fortunately MMA has been a proving ground that has removed the OVERLY "mystical" aspects of the martial arts so we can see what works. The downside has been perhaps some loss of the culture, but the upside is that now kids know they can't shoot fireballs of Chi if they reach the highest levels of Kung Fu haha.
So honestly, I don't know why you are getting so upset, and once again, i perfectly understand where you are coming from and think that the modern day MMA culture could certainly use more spirituality injected back into it, but regardless, it has IMO been the best thing that has ever happened for martial arts because it has shown the world what works and what doesn't. Better to have some bullies mixed with some good people and have us all know what works rather than shroud it all in mystery and hide the best techniques as was often done in ancient China. You can still practice your art and choose not to watch MMA, and others will practice theirs.
