Are NBOMes more dangerous than the DOx drugs?

[SteamboatBillJr]

To me, the people commenting in this thread comprehend these concepts. If some of the others are confused about efficacy I have an EL5.

EFFICACY(%) rates how strongly the chemical activates the receptor in compassion with with another chemical. The reference chemical is traditionally the endogenous (naturally occurring in the brain) neurotransmitter. With serotonin receptors (5HT aka 5-hydroxytryptamine receptors) the endogenous chemical neurotransmitter is serotonin. Serotonin is the standard full agonist and has an efficacy of 100%.

Efficacy is different than potency and affinity.

POTENCY(mg/kg) rates how strongly the chemical elicits various responses.
AFFINITY(Ki) rates how strongly the chemical binds with the receptor.

 

[infantannihilator]

I held the same opinion originally. My opinion changed when I learned LSD and DMT are stronger full agonist and have proven safer than NBOMes.

LSD is not a full agonist of anything to my knowledge. It is only a partial agonist of 5HT2A for instance. That's why the nbomes were developed and originally used in research, because they showed full receptor agonism.

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

LSD is not a full agonist of anything to my knowledge. It is only a partial agonist of 5HT2A for instance. That's why the nbomes were developed and originally used in research, because they showed full receptor agonism.

LSD is actually a full agonist at 5HT1A (efficacy 109.6%). I linked the published data from The Journal of Psychopharmacology in my second comment. Technically LSD is classified as super agonist and activates the receptor stronger than full agonist.


I think the first citation of these chemicals (NBOMe) is from the mid-late 90s (though this is from memory). I never found much information on their original purpose. Most of the recent published work on the development of this class of chemicals mentions selectivity as the primary goal (CIMBI.org). The high selectivity was beneficial in charting the location of serotonin receptors in the human brain.

I had excessive optimism about the therapeutic potential of these chemicals in the past. I devoted an enormous amount of research and effort into these. I was misguided by others.

I consider my work with these chemicals the most difficult and largest failure of my life. I was lucky I survived. Having invested so much of myself, my youthful optimism, and youthful trust in something I later learned was practically poison was very traumatic. I was intentionally misguided by sociopaths that wanted to exploit my vulnerability. The real lesson I learned is that people aren't inherently altruistic and for whatever reason malevolent sociopaths exist among us.

I mention my experience as an attempt at giving my warning on DOC context. Avoid having irrational optimism and favor excessive caution with potentially dangerous things.

 

[SteamboatBillJr]

Again, he completely dodged my post so now I have a very good idea of who he is. If he really didn't know me in person, he would've darn well said so. Now any answer would be too late. There's probably a small group behind that one poster. Just more people who do not like me (yet follow me here?) though I didn't do one thing to them. I've had to deal with that all of my life anyway, so whatever, and I know how they found out too.

The short answer is: Your concern is partially justified. Our world adopted terrible drug policy. Many countries have extreme consequences associated with these therapeutic tools. If you use illegal drugs you'll interact with undercover cops and people in more shadowy government organizations.


The long answer is: I successfully treated unresponsive debilitating schizophrenia with psychedelic drugs. I got well using illegal drugs. In my country people making these claims go to prison, institutions, or stay in isolation. I exist in near complete isolation because of the social ramifications of my lifestyle. I haven't met you. In my non-internet life I actively avoid other people.

My isolation is an extreme precaution. After my previous stays in jails and institutions I am terrified of what they do to me in those places. For me homelessness is also something else I avoid. I have zero recollection of my youth and if the stress (or whatever) makes my condition worse in those situations happens again the amnesia returns and I lose self control. My physical body continues and my consciousness dies. The most important personal goal in my life is staying well. You probably shouldn't adopt my excessive caution.

I think your concerns are partially justified. I am not offended if you don't believe I am me and think I am law enforcement or a more shadowy government organization.

Mostly I hope you find peace with yourself.

 

[lamanogaucha]

With all of that having been said, I repeat: Using convenient (yet not wholly related) scientific data in an attempt to arrive at an a priori conclusion (a subjective one, we have now learned) does not make that conclusion fact or science. That's extrapolation, and therefore, what you have is a hypothesis: it could be correct or incorrect.

My view, put simply, is that NBOMe's are self-evidently riskier than DOx's. Nevertheless, as with all other psychedelics, the latter compounds must be approached with informed precaution.

 

[Kl519]

The short answer is: Your concern is partially justified. Our world adopted terrible drug policy. Many countries have extreme consequences associated with these therapeutic tools. If you use illegal drugs you'll interact with undercover cops and people in more shadowy government organizations.


The long answer is: I successfully treated unresponsive debilitating schizophrenia with psychedelic drugs. I got well using illegal drugs. In my country people making these claims go to prison, institutions, or stay in isolation. I exist in near complete isolation because of the social ramifications of my lifestyle. I haven't met you. In my non-internet life I actively avoid other people.

My isolation is an extreme precaution. After my previous stays in jails and institutions I am terrified of what they do to me in those places. For me homelessness is also something else I avoid. I have zero recollection of my youth and if the stress (or whatever) makes my condition worse in those situations happens again the amnesia returns and I lose self control. My physical body continues and my consciousness dies. The most important personal goal in my life is staying well. You probably shouldn't adopt my excessive caution.

I think your concerns are partially justified. I am not offended if you don't believe I am me and think I am law enforcement or a more shadowy government organization.

Mostly I hope you find peace with yourself.

You need to stop lying. I'll keep everything anonymous here, and it is you who spent your free time harassing me. You and others know that it is me who keeps to himself and doesn't bother to get involved in other people's lives.

You guys are young and don't understand. The least you could've done was respect me for what I've done for her (you know who I'm talking about). She knows EVERYTHING that is going on, and even though she won't say it to any of you, she doesn't like it. One of the reasons she's this attached and avoids others (like you guys) is because she knows people around me pick on me, in a way that you and others have been doing and she doesn't agree with it. I don't know what you guys think, but BOTH of us care a lot about each other and the only thing you've succeeded in trying to cause me problems is hurt her instead. I hope you're proud of that and this little game you've been playing against a guy who only tried to be nice to you all. Have fun.