Opioids Anybody who's on methadone maintenance (or used to be)...

[Bomb319]

Following up on my last few posts from yesterday, I really need to find out some information from other people who have gone through the same experience. First of all, what dose are you on and for how long?? In every topic about this, people on MMT tell those who are new to it that after a week or two, you don't "get high from it". When you take your daily dose then, what exactly is it that you feel? Opiates and opioids produce some very recognizable and unique effects, so do these just simply disappear for you when you have been on the same dose of methadone for longer than a month (or whatever time frame)? OR do you still feel pleasant opiate effects as always, except you don't feel any euphoria - meaning your mood stays more or less the same, but you can still feel the opiate in your system in the "background" as you go about your day? Or is it simply that you don't really feel any opiate effects at ALL (except possibly when you first take your dose in the morning for an hour or whatever), and the MMT just makes you feel normal all the time? No withdrawal and no euphoria, and you do NOT feel an opioid in your system?

I really appreciate your help. This is very relevant to me and my current situation, so the more detail you are able to give regarding what exactly it is that the drug does for you and your mood and how you feel about it - helps me out more than anything else! The problem I've had is that the term "euphoria" appears to mean different things for different people, and I need to know what exactly it is that I am supposed to expect from a maintenance dose of methadone over the long term.

Thanks a lot, all

 

[jabualj]

I'm fairly curious about this myself. I've been on suboxone for the last few weeks, but due to the lack of "euphoria" I find myself continuing to use. My doctor has suggested switching to methadone for 90 days, but I know afterwards I would have to go through methadone withdrawal, which I hear is horrendous...

 

[Bomb319]

That is a horrible idea! I have honestly NEVER heard of a doctor who would advise you to go on methadone for 90 days! That would be the worst of both worlds - it guarantees a painful, probably long and possibly not doable withdrawal when it's over, and it also gets you off the subs.

The choice of methadone vs subs should be made with input from both of you. Usually it depends on your habit; how long, what drugs, IV or not, how much, etc. Longer term, higher dose, IV use is in general much more responsive to methadone. A shorter term habit of popping percs for example would be better suited for suboxone - a drug that is orders of magnitude easier to come off of. You need to really examine your addiction, and your likelihood of relapse and what it could mean for your life. If you truly feel unable to get clean and are prepared to be on maintenance therapy, and go to the clinic often for months or even years, then methadone is an option. But "trying" methadone for 90 days?? Is this doctor even an addictions specialist?

 

[jabualj]

I'm honestly pretty skeptical of his abilities or level of concern. But to be fair, the suboxone hasn't exactly been doing the trick and perhaps something more is in order

For background, it's about a 4 month IV heroin habit, around 1 gram/day. I really think more than anything I need some real counselling/support. I spend entirely too much time sitting in my house alone with no one I'm really close to in the area...

 

[Bomb319]

You need to find a new doctor. Do whatever it takes. From what you've said, you need counselling for sure - I'm sorry, but I can't really advise you much about that But if you have an IV habit, and have been using a full gram per day every day, no wonder suboxone isn't doing anything....that's like trying to put out a fire with a drop of water. I don't know what your current dose is, but I know that bupe is a partial agonist and it has a ceiling effect (there is no "highest" dose you can take; with methadone you can increase your dose indefinitely as long as you do it slowly, of course - until you get to a dose that works for you). If your doctor doesn't know this, one of the most basic situations in initial stage treatment, I would be extremely skeptical of his ability to make further decisions in the future.

A strong IV heroin habit requires methadone - IF and only if you want to go down that road, realizing that it carries a whole host of issues of it's own. However, it's immeasurably better than having a severe heroin addiction which will ruin your life, and sooner or later kill you.

 

[jabualj]

I really don't want to mess with Methadone - I honestly don't know anyone it's really helped

And to be fair, it's only been a gram the last month or so and I'm going off of bag size, so it's probably actually less. I think the suboxone works well enough, I just get anxious and don't have anyone around to talk me out of using. When I have work or something to distract me, I do ok with just the subs and no dope. More than anything, I just want a break - you know, some down time with family or friends to just get clean. It feels like with work and bills and all the "adult" responsibilities, there's no end in sight. That's why I started using in the first place!

 

[jabualj]

Sorry bro, I appreciate you talking to me about this, but I feel like I'm kind of hijacking your thread

 

[David Wooderson]

Originally got on methadone for vicodin addiction
Started at 15 or 20mg, 2nd dose got me higher than I ever had at that point
Would get an increase on an almost daily basis, shot to 240mg over 6-8 months
Got kicked out of treatment but they couldn't pull me at 240, so they did a 20mg cut/day until I got to 180mg
I was so out of it and hallucinating that I didn't leave my apartment for a month, had no idea what I was in for
I cold turkey'd
Got back on it after 6-8 months shot back up to 180mg
Cold Turkey'd that and ended up in a psych ward

I would feel my doses after I took them, for me it is still the strongest and most desirable opiod, I got on suboxone and after 5-6 years have been clean without anything for almost a year
Suboxone gave me my life back, it prepared me for an opiate free life

If there is one thing I could take back it would be getting on methadone as it ruined everything in my life, and I still pay for all the dumb shit I did while on it..

 

[jabualj]

Yeah, that's my concern with methadone. I don't know that there really is a "maintenance" dose because everyone I know who's been on it has had there dose steadily increased over time

But Bomb is also right about "euphoria" meaning different things to different people. I mean, no offense David, but Vicodin is kind of like a beginner level opiate. I have to wonder how methadone would compare to one of the heavyweights, like heroin or morphine...

 

[milligram]

I was on 120 mgs a day for a 4 years... . i quit cold turkey twice from that 120 mgs. But i always got high. every day. i would dose at about 6am, later I would start nodding off at about 11am every day. Because when i closed my eyes, i would drift into euphoria. so i would keep them closed and see how far i could sink wouthout falling asleep, i would do it till i was drooling, then snap back to reality. that never happens with suboxone to me. so yea, looking back at my MMT days, i would say i was getting high every day. I could sleep like a baby, even if i layed down at 7:30pm. and sleep without intteruption til the next morning. Those days are long gone. BUT while i was IN MMT, i would have said no i dont get high. But now that im on bupe, i now realize that methadone gave me a lot of euphoria and advantages that bupe dont. but its not worth it. Withdrawals from methadone cant be put into words. so im happy to take bupe.

 

[My3sons]

I think a lot of tbe problem with methadone is the user and not the drug. So many people try to take advantage and keep upping their dose. You aren't supposed to nod. If you are at that point its the pts fault for not being honest about the dose. I dont nod. I feel great. Its working beautifully for me. Im also serious about getting clean and not trying to get high. I go to work and take care of my children and lead a normal life. I have none of these issues other people talk about. Itis the pts responsibility to communicate with the nurse on a daily basis and you are supposed to be honest about how you feel. If you are still looking to get high from methadone you should not be in the program bc you aren't ready and thats how mmt gets such a bad rap.

 

[Keif' Richards]

There are some outliers who claim to feel their dose on a daily basis, but i can assure you that this is not the norm.

After a few weeks you will slowly fade into feeling absolutely zero effect from your dose. The positive effects will slowly fade and you will be left with a severe dependence that is hard to break. This is why methadone maintenance is not to be trifled with. It is a serious, life changing decision that must be made in good conscience and for the right reasons, as it is a huge commitment.

Please do not be getting on MMT in the hopes of getting high everyday, because I can assure you that his is not how it works. The desired effects of MMT are a mitigated acute and post-acute withdrawal syndrome from opioids. The goal is that you will no longer crave opioids on a regular basis and will be able to go about your life as a more or less normal person. The long lasting depression, anxiety and craving that is PAWS can be avoided, but you must be aware that what goes up must come down. The withdrawal is long lasting and intense.

With that said, as a serious heroin addict, methadone maintenance truly changed my life for the better when I was on it. I had just gotten out of jail from my one and only heroin possession charge and realized that I needed a serious change. After I was inducted and reached a reasonable dose, I never used again once, but I was taking my recovery seriously.

 

[SKR]

Originally got on methadone for vicodin addiction
Started at 15 or 20mg, 2nd dose got me higher than I ever had at that point
Would get an increase on an almost daily basis, shot to 240mg over 6-8 months
Got kicked out of treatment but they couldn't pull me at 240, so they did a 20mg cut/day until I got to 180mg
I was so out of it and hallucinating that I didn't leave my apartment for a month, had no idea what I was in for
I cold turkey'd
Got back on it after 6-8 months shot back up to 180mg
Cold Turkey'd that and ended up in a psych ward

I would feel my doses after I took them, for me it is still the strongest and most desirable opiod, I got on suboxone and after 5-6 years have been clean without anything for almost a year
Suboxone gave me my life back, it prepared me for an opiate free life

If there is one thing I could take back it would be getting on methadone as it ruined everything in my life, and I still pay for all the dumb shit I did while on it..

Ffs, I'm horrified that you ended up on that much methadone for a vicodin habit. I mean, how much Vic were you taking?

H users I've known/met over the years have always said that if they don't know the quality or source of their H, cos something happened to their trusted source, that they would and will choose a dose of methadone instead cos they KNOW it will at very least hold them but quite often, depending on their H habit, get them high as fuck.

Methadone is a very last resort, or should be treated as such imo, if you are living a horrendous H existence, where your lifestyle is surely going to kill you (lethal fent cuts, violent dealers/hoods/gangsta shit, health issues related to IV use etc). If this isn't you then methadone is not for you. For a pill habit methadone is likely like using a sledgehammer where a tac hammer was needed.

Fucking totally irresponsible Dr's, a 180+ methadone habit is going to need Heroin to get off it, then morphine, then codeine then clean. That's if you are disciplined and desperate to be clean, discipline and drug addict are not usually words commonly associated with one another but you'll understand if you've been there.

You know the dose is wrong when you are getting high, it's nice but you're just catching an even larger more horrific opiate habit.

 

[Bomb319]

I really don't want to mess with Methadone - I honestly don't know anyone it's really helped

And to be fair, it's only been a gram the last month or so and I'm going off of bag size, so it's probably actually less. I think the suboxone works well enough, I just get anxious and don't have anyone around to talk me out of using. When I have work or something to distract me, I do ok with just the subs and no dope. More than anything, I just want a break - you know, some down time with family or friends to just get clean. It feels like with work and bills and all the "adult" responsibilities, there's no end in sight. That's why I started using in the first place!

lol are you kidding? Of course I realize that methadone is not for everyone. I believe that too many people who are NOT ready to quit talk themselves into going to a clinic and getting on the drug under that pretext. Whether they are lying to the doctor or themselves, their true goal is to obtain a free (or much cheaper) powerful opioid which they can legally get and dose every day. There's a mistaken belief that this would make them high all the time, save them money, and they may or may not continue using other street drugs.

Yet it's obviously not true that methadone "hasn't helped anyone"; at the very least, it wouldn't have been on the market for nearly 50 years! If you are a severe IV addict and have been for years, your path to destruction will only result in death or incarceration, etc. then methadone is absolutely a Godsend. I know many people have to drive far out of their way to get to their clinic before they can get carries (take home doses), and I know some people consider it to be "liquid handcuffs". It's reprehensible IMO for doctors to put a Vicodin addict of ANY strength on methadone. The patient will certainly become far more dependent on the methadone than the Vicodin. Maybe you had a good reason for doing it, but in general it's a very bad idea to do this. For the serious addict who really wants to quit, was literally going to die if they carried on with their behavior, and has relatively no problem picking up the drug, it can and has saved thousands of lives.

 

[nasir~]

Methadone has been a lifesaver for me.
Got off the street gear and have a much better quality of life now. I'm on 150 mgs/day and have been on 185mgs. one week ago. I am in detox right now and going through light methadone and some benzo withdrawal. The methadone used to make me feel good and even got me high sometimes.-even after taking it for more than 5 years. But ever since i had to stop benzos in july, it's not the same anymore. I guess because of benzo PAWS.
But it's really hard to get off methadone;-)

 

[Bomb319]

There are some outliers who claim to feel their dose on a daily basis, but i can assure you that this is not the norm.

After a few weeks you will slowly fade into feeling absolutely zero effect from your dose. The positive effects will slowly fade and you will be left with a severe dependence that is hard to break. This is why methadone maintenance is not to be trifled with. It is a serious, life changing decision that must be made in good conscience and for the right reasons, as it is a huge commitment.

Please do not be getting on MMT in the hopes of getting high everyday, because I can assure you that his is not how it works. The desired effects of MMT are a mitigated acute and post-acute withdrawal syndrome from opioids. The goal is that you will no longer crave opioids on a regular basis and will be able to go about your life as a more or less normal person. The long lasting depression, anxiety and craving that is PAWS can be avoided, but you must be aware that what goes up must come down. The withdrawal is long lasting and intense.

With that said, as a serious heroin addict, methadone maintenance truly changed my life for the better when I was on it. I had just gotten out of jail from my one and only heroin possession charge and realized that I needed a serious change. After I was inducted and reached a reasonable dose, I never used again once, but I was taking my recovery seriously.

Yeah, well that would be me. I don't know how or why I do, but I still become pretty nicely blitzed for at LEAST the first couple hours after taking it, sometimes the entire day to varying degrees, and rarely even through the night. My dose is very high at 220 mg, and I ALWAYS take it on an empty stomach in the morning. That may have something to do with it. However, I believe that it's mostly due to the fact that I'm a very high metabolizer (why I ended up on such a high dose in the first place). If I take my normal dose at 8:30 am on Monday, by the time I have to get up and go to the pharmacy for 8:30 on Tuesday, I will often be yawning and tearing excessively, in worse cases begin with the chills and hot flashes (which are the fucking WORST), and even sneezing fits on rare occasion - usually longer than 24 hours though. Such significant fluctuations in blood-levels allow me to maintain the high, possibly anyway.

In addition, your post implied that those people who claim to have daily euphoria or noticeably strong opiate effects were either mistaken or else it's psychological. I can tell you with one-hundred percent certainty that it is absolutely NOT psychological - at least for me. I won't deny that psychology does at times enhance it, sometimes greatly. The same thing happens with withdrawal. However, the opioid effects I get from it are anything but imaginary; above all else, I get physical effects such as constricted pupils, quick reduction of anxiety and pain, etc. Opioids including methadone produce a very distinctive euphoric good feeling - which I get around 45 minutes after dosing. It begins to come over me while I'm doing other things and not even thinking about it. Especially if I've used any potentiation tricks, this can become so strong, it feels identical to popping 6-8 percs with zero opioid tolerance. Believe me, it's anything but imaginary. The exact same thing happens to me in reverse in withdrawal - even the discomfort appearing in waves, and noticeable chills and hot flashes beginning no matter how quiet and still I lie, looking for a residual effect of my previous dose.

 

[Bomb319]

Originally got on methadone for vicodin addiction
Started at 15 or 20mg, 2nd dose got me higher than I ever had at that point
Would get an increase on an almost daily basis, shot to 240mg over 6-8 months
Got kicked out of treatment but they couldn't pull me at 240, so they did a 20mg cut/day until I got to 180mg
I was so out of it and hallucinating that I didn't leave my apartment for a month, had no idea what I was in for
I cold turkey'd
Got back on it after 6-8 months shot back up to 180mg
Cold Turkey'd that and ended up in a psych ward

I would feel my doses after I took them, for me it is still the strongest and most desirable opiod, I got on suboxone and after 5-6 years have been clean without anything for almost a year
Suboxone gave me my life back, it prepared me for an opiate free life

If there is one thing I could take back it would be getting on methadone as it ruined everything in my life, and I still pay for all the dumb shit I did while on it..

Are you telling us that you cold turkey'ed 240 mg of methadone??? Jesus Christ, dude...

 

[Bomb319]

Yeah, that's my concern with methadone. I don't know that there really is a "maintenance" dose because everyone I know who's been on it has had there dose steadily increased over time

But Bomb is also right about "euphoria" meaning different things to different people. I mean, no offense David, but Vicodin is kind of like a beginner level opiate. I have to wonder how methadone would compare to one of the heavyweights, like heroin or morphine...

TBH, it's about the same, but more like instamt release Oxy than anything. You might also compare it to morphone without the histamine release. You won't get any rush as you would with IV H and morphine, but a very high dose on an empty stomach along with a small loss of tolerance while beginning withdrawal does create a rush-like come-up for me.

 

[jabualj]

I think I'm going to try to stay on the bupre if possible. I'm honestly not looking for a substitute high, which is why I asked for the Suboxone to begin with. It's just the panic attacks that kill me. The fucked up part is I don't even get high when I use dope at this point because of the bupre "blockade" - it's more a placebo effect than anything. I'm pretty sure some benzos would level it out pretty quickly for me - get me over that anxiety hump. But in my experience, when you go to a doctor and say "I just need some xanax or klonopin" they look at you like you're some scheming junky

And to be fair, I wasn't saying methadone doesn't help anybody - it clearly does. Just the people I've personally known who went on it had pretty horrible results - like death by OD to avoid the withdrawals!!

 

[Keif' Richards]

Yeah, well that would be me. I don't know how or why I do, but I still become pretty nicely blitzed for at LEAST the first couple hours after taking it, sometimes the entire day to varying degrees, and rarely even through the night. My dose is very high at 220 mg, and I ALWAYS take it on an empty stomach in the morning. That may have something to do with it. However, I believe that it's mostly due to the fact that I'm a very high metabolizer (why I ended up on such a high dose in the first place). If I take my normal dose at 8:30 am on Monday, by the time I have to get up and go to the pharmacy for 8:30 on Tuesday, I will often be yawning and tearing excessively, in worse cases begin with the chills and hot flashes (which are the fucking WORST), and even sneezing fits on rare occasion - usually longer than 24 hours though. Such significant fluctuations in blood-levels allow me to maintain the high, possibly anyway.

In addition, your post implied that those people who claim to have daily euphoria or noticeably strong opiate effects were either mistaken or else it's psychological. I can tell you with one-hundred percent certainty that it is absolutely NOT psychological - at least for me. I won't deny that psychology does at times enhance it, sometimes greatly. The same thing happens with withdrawal. However, the opioid effects I get from it are anything but imaginary; above all else, I get physical effects such as constricted pupils, quick reduction of anxiety and pain, etc. Opioids including methadone produce a very distinctive euphoric good feeling - which I get around 45 minutes after dosing. It begins to come over me while I'm doing other things and not even thinking about it. Especially if I've used any potentiation tricks, this can become so strong, it feels identical to popping 6-8 percs with zero opioid tolerance. Believe me, it's anything but imaginary. The exact same thing happens to me in reverse in withdrawal - even the discomfort appearing in waves, and noticeable chills and hot flashes beginning no matter how quiet and still I lie, looking for a residual effect of my previous dose.

Hey buddy. I just wanted to clarify that I don't discredit those people who experience a high/buzz from their daily methadone dose. I was merely saying that it's not the norm; it's not common.