Background: Brief psychotic disorder, anxiety disorder. Currently no symptoms of the former. Taking aripiprazole 15mg daily. Suspected ADD, taking 54mg concerta 20mg of another form of slow-release methylphenidate (prescribed). So I took about 100-200mg of 4-FA Sunday morning at 1 am, the trip was great. Stayed up until 5 am, then slept until 9 am. Was feeling pretty bad, but no psychotic symptoms. Then I rested from 6pm to 7 am the day afterwards. Towards 7 am, I was half-awake, half-asleep, but began seeing kaleidoscopic images of the cosmos, purple hues, etc, reminiscient of a strong LSD trip. At about 3-4 pm Monday I began to hear soft voices whispering, although they were impossible to make out. I was with my friend and he assured me he heard nothing. Then, back in class, I heard "What did he say" out of nowhere, still in a very soft tone. When I went to sleep that day I could hear a constant whispering coming from the top of my room. Visual hallucinations have been non-existant except for the clouding of vision in a specific area of the landscape, which has since subsided. I am worried about going to my doctor because she will probably drug test me, as she has done in the past. So my question is, will this subside without further medication, and if so, when? Also, how is it possible that I felt no psychotic symptoms for the duration of the drug, or the remainder of that day, yet the next day they appeared? Any help is appreciated as I fear I will be permanently fried.
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Amphetamine psychosis the day AFTER taking 4-FA? Urgent help needed
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Mazzab
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Easy bud. Probably better that people reply who are more informed on the matter give proper advice then just random people givin you blind assurance or bashing you for your use. Why can't you go to your doctor? Bc she'll drug test you? Ahh well. You use drugs so that's the choice you make. Grow up. Tell her the truth and it will probably be the best way for her to treat you. SMH
DoctorSativa
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Mod note: This is NOT HR advice, do not listen to this post.
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MagickalKat777
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It sounds like you had a paradoxical reaction. Unfortunately, little is known about these drugs in the first place but when you're on an atypical antipsychotic, especially one as poorly understood as aripiprazole, you are adding extra risk to using them.
My advice would be to not use drugs with aripiprazole. It, like other atypical antipsychotics, has a broad range of action on a lot of receptors. Not all of the mechanics of aripiprazole are understood and even less is known about 4-FA. Since the psychosis happened AFTER you came down AND you had gone to sleep, it sounds like it was possibly a metabolite that was responsible for it. I'm not sure that the metabolites of 4-FA are known.
Now one last note here. 100-200mg is a large range. I'm assuming by this that you either used a scale that measured in .1g or you did not have a scale at all and are estimating. If it was the former, you could have taken anywhere between 100mg and 300mg. You really should get a better scale. If it was the latter and you didn't weigh it at all, you shouldn't be using any bulk drugs until you get a scale.
To sum up, be cautious mixing things with aripiprazole (allergy testing is extremely important here), nobody can tell you what exactly happened and only make guesses, and make sure that you are taking a reasonable dose when you are doing drugs. Best of luck!
My advice would be to not use drugs with aripiprazole. It, like other atypical antipsychotics, has a broad range of action on a lot of receptors. Not all of the mechanics of aripiprazole are understood and even less is known about 4-FA. Since the psychosis happened AFTER you came down AND you had gone to sleep, it sounds like it was possibly a metabolite that was responsible for it. I'm not sure that the metabolites of 4-FA are known.
Now one last note here. 100-200mg is a large range. I'm assuming by this that you either used a scale that measured in .1g or you did not have a scale at all and are estimating. If it was the former, you could have taken anywhere between 100mg and 300mg. You really should get a better scale. If it was the latter and you didn't weigh it at all, you shouldn't be using any bulk drugs until you get a scale.
To sum up, be cautious mixing things with aripiprazole (allergy testing is extremely important here), nobody can tell you what exactly happened and only make guesses, and make sure that you are taking a reasonable dose when you are doing drugs. Best of luck!
Thanks for the very informative post. I thought the antipsychotic would protect me from any adverse reaction by blocking psychosis, is that not the case? I've also read that 4FA is not metabolized as anything other than 4FA as the bonds are too strong to be broken
MagickalKat777
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Antipsychotics have unpredictable reactions at times. Aripiprazole and olanzapine are the two worst if you ask me. Always be extremely cautious mixing pharmaceuticals with drugs as a standard practice but be especially careful with research chemicals and psychiatric medications. Quite often the psychiatric medications might as well be considered research chemicals as well.
As for the metabolism of 4-FA, I don't believe there has ever been a definite study on whether or not it can be broken down. Since para-chloroamphetamine can be, I don't see why para-fluoroamphetamine wouldn't be subject to hepatic metabolism. In this thread, nuke says that a possible metabolite could be 4-fluoro-norephedrine and they go into the talk that 4-hydroxyamphetamine wouldn't likely be formed because of the halogen bond but the ephedrine likely would be: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/420487-4-fluoroamphetamine-metabolites.
As for the metabolism of 4-FA, I don't believe there has ever been a definite study on whether or not it can be broken down. Since para-chloroamphetamine can be, I don't see why para-fluoroamphetamine wouldn't be subject to hepatic metabolism. In this thread, nuke says that a possible metabolite could be 4-fluoro-norephedrine and they go into the talk that 4-hydroxyamphetamine wouldn't likely be formed because of the halogen bond but the ephedrine likely would be: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/420487-4-fluoroamphetamine-metabolites.
badrobot114
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Seconding MagicalKat's advice. Research chemicals and illegal drugs are usually poorly understood so their interactions can be unpredictable and contradictory. Take MDMA and antidepressants for example, it's known that MDMA induced depression responds poorly/doesn't respond to medication, sometimes medication can actually worsen it. That is because the underlying physiology is different than that of normally occurring depression.
It seems that the interaction between your meds and the 4-FA follows a similar pattern of contradiction. Did you take your ADD meds following your roll/trip?
It seems that the interaction between your meds and the 4-FA follows a similar pattern of contradiction. Did you take your ADD meds following your roll/trip?
This is the best advice you will receive here: first and foremost, given your psychiatric conditions, you need to stop taking recreational drugs. You are at a higher risk, as you now know, of precipitating an acute psychotic break. What you _should_ do is talk to a doctor. In the ER, to stop these sort of episodes they'll give you haldol/benzos. As a medicinal chemist, I recommend you discontinue your concerta and methylphenidate (both the same drug, essentially) until the hallucinations stop. If you're not going to stop all recreational drug use, at the very least stop fucking around with stimulants. They is not for you.
edit: As for the conversation on metabolism, what was written here is mostly right. First of all, comparing the metabolism of 4-Chloro-Amphetamine to 4-Fluoro-Amphetamine is a bad idea. The metabolic pathways are too different. A more appropriate comparison would be to 4-methylamphetamine (paper: Studies on the metabolism and the detectability of 4-methyl-amphetamine and its isomers 2-methyl-amphetamine and 3-methyl-amphetamine in rat urine using GC-MS and LC-(high-resolution)-MS) As expected, the major metabolites are the amine conjugated phase II derivatives (sulfate, glucuronates, and acetamides). It is reasonable that 4-fluoro-amphetamine does not undergo any significant phase I (oxidative) metabolism due to blocking the preferred parahydroxylation.
edit: As for the conversation on metabolism, what was written here is mostly right. First of all, comparing the metabolism of 4-Chloro-Amphetamine to 4-Fluoro-Amphetamine is a bad idea. The metabolic pathways are too different. A more appropriate comparison would be to 4-methylamphetamine (paper: Studies on the metabolism and the detectability of 4-methyl-amphetamine and its isomers 2-methyl-amphetamine and 3-methyl-amphetamine in rat urine using GC-MS and LC-(high-resolution)-MS) As expected, the major metabolites are the amine conjugated phase II derivatives (sulfate, glucuronates, and acetamides). It is reasonable that 4-fluoro-amphetamine does not undergo any significant phase I (oxidative) metabolism due to blocking the preferred parahydroxylation.
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