Stimulants Amphetamine. Interval user. What are the warning signs of long term mental consequences?

[MediocreWorrier]

I've looked through this forum a couple of hours, but I couldn't quite find an answer to my concerns. I appologize if another already existing thread answers my questions.

I'll keep it short. I've been using street amphetamine more heavily the past two years. I take it every second friday at average (two weeks rest between), in some short periods it's been every friday. The quantum I take has increased. Several years a ago, 150mg would be plenty for the whole night, now I might snort 2-300mg in one go, followed with another 200mg sometimes, which will lead to the start of the come-down beginning sometime next day. I usually fall a sleep saturday night. I take benzodiazepines during the trip and perhaps some after (5x 1mg alprazolam is common). My abuse has become very predictable, but of course some binges can be more heavy, but I never stay awake to nights in a row.

The reason I'm making this thread is because I've recently experienced two episodes that might qualify as a psychosis, the last one even made me lose my memory for a couple of hours. I also now seem to get paranoia on every trip (even with benzo). The paranoia is managebale, what worries me greatly is a sudden shift from never in my life experiencing paranoia while on amphetamine, to experiencing them every time it seems (constant fear of the cops coming to my house, been convinced that they are standing in the livingroom downstares for a couple of times also). My way of abuse has been very steady for two years, so when the symptom of paranoia starts appearing like this without any other factors having changed, it worries me.

The amount of street amphetamine stated above varies in quality so it's hard to say how much pure it is, but the development from going from 150mg to 300 (perhaps even 500) gives an indication of tolerance build up.

Question 1:
When short term effects of paranoia sudden appears like this, without an increase in dosage (I even have paranoia right now, even though I'm on a much lower dosage than usage), what might that signify?

Question 2:
Is it a way to figure out if I might have any long term adverse effects to amphetamine abuse? I've read some lists of long term effects, but I can't relate to almost none of them, but I do have great difficulty feeling curiocity and energized focus towards just about anything. Emotions like these have been dampened many years before starting to abuse amphetamine. There are other ways of explaining the absence of these emotions also, but I truly hope that my abuse is a factor.

This is an unwanted habit, but I'm lucky it doesn't interfer much is my life, other than completely occopuing a weekend, and that my abuse habit seems to be stable (has for about two years time at least). I might have been naive thinking that a 1-3 weeks completely sober pause between each binge is enough for the body to repair damages done, believing that my abuse only affects my wallet, time spent being high, and the pain that follows the next day.

What I hope for: Convincing information that my abuse has long term negative effects on my psyche even after I'm sober. That the new paranoia is a sign that my abuse is not stable, but getting worse. I'm longing for more arguments to stop or at least limit my abuse. I find it so hard to break this trend when I don't find any true meaningfull benefits from doing so, if that makes sense?

I would be truly thankful to any helpful response to this thread.

 

[negrogesic]

The pattern of abuse doesn't sound too alarming on the surface (the doses are lowish since from what I understand UK speed is rather low purity) and the binges are short and punctuated with decent size breaks in between, but in general, abusing amphetamines increases one risk of developing psychosis. There is a significant amount of literature on the subject, for example: https://ebmh.bmj.com/content/early/2022/01/18/ebmental-2021-300300

Certain people are more susceptible to this, and for some, the state can linger long after the abuse stops.

How long do you notice the paranoia/delusions lasting after the drug has worn off?

If you plan on continuing to use amphetamine you should consider supplements to reduce the neurotoxicity. Amphetamine psychosis seems to occur via a glutaminergic pathway, so you might consider consuming magnesium glycinate towards the tail end of the experience. This will not stop the phenomenon however but may reduce the some of the neurotoxicity and slow the progression.

Generally, stimulant psychosis is a sign of neurotoxicity, and continues to get worse and worse overtime. I have never experienced it from amphetamine or even methamphetamine. And while I have experienced psychotomimetic states from large doses of crack cocaine, these more resembled serotonergic frank hallucinations (ie, "tripping") than classic stimulant psychosis (which tend to consist of delusions and paranoia). Interestingly I have experienced classic symptoms of stimulant psychosis from large daily doses of methylphenidate (~160mg/day), which tooks months to develop. I have also experienced more rapidly developing stimulant psychosis from "bath salts" (synthetic cathinones like MDPV and a-PVP). The case of methylphenidate stimulant psychosis was perhaps the most insidious as it was the most slowly developing. It did stop however once I discontinued.

If you are experiencing strong symptoms of stimulant psychosis from what sounds like relatively modest use of amphetamine then you might consider discontinuing its use as the depth of the psychosis only gets worse over time. Personally, with regard to methylphenidate and bath salt stimulant psychosis, I found a certain fun in the mania of it, trying to find out who was attempting to monitor me, etc. However I feel as if I permanently hurt my neck by holding my ear up to the walls for an extended periods of time trying to listen to who ever was watching me. At times it felt like I was being recorded on some sort of surveillance system where the person/persons monitoring me had accidentally enabled some sort of two-way communication system that allowed me to hear them discussing my surveillance.

While I was able to walk away from the depths of stimulant psychosis seemingly unscathed, I can assure you that, in actuality, I didn't. Such states are a manifestation of some pretty serious neurotoxicity. Some people however, such as myself, seem to bounce back rather easily from such states, while others don't. You may be among the unlucky who don't bounce back quite as easily, so I would exercise extreme caution (especially since you have been able precipitate stimulant psychosis with relatively light use).

 

[MediocreWorrier]

Thank you for your reply

The paranoia gradually goes away as the amphetamine leaves my system, but some good sleeps most definitely ends it.

If the paranoia which has how seems to have become a permanent guest while high, is a strong sign of neurotoxicity then it wouldn't be unnatural to think that other symptoms (like the lack of curiosity, focus and drive to explore, learn or build stuff) is also it. The emotional states I just mentioned are the exact same emotional states that become alive when high. I've also noticed that my balance while completely sober has been a little bit worse than I remember for some time, but I haven't thought much about it untill I read that that is also a symptom of amphetamine neurotoxicity.

I've been wanting to quit doing amphetamines for so many years, but as the years went by, the routines and the predictability of my abuse became so stable that I stopped worrying about my addiction threatning my job or my friendships. This made it seem like a far less threat and my motivation of quitting sort of went away. Parallel to the rising predictability of my use, the number of binges per month and the amount taken each time went considerable up. If my abuse has actually led to neurotoxicity then from what I'm reading this is pretty serious and it will then only get worse and worse. I'm sort of biased in the sense that I'm strongly drawn towards believing that this is true because it will make an extremely good reason to quit all together (which I know is not easy as amphetamine has been my single source of experiencing positive emotions for more than eight years). I forgot to mention that it has also become common for me to have hallucinations at the corner of my eyesight, something I've also read as a symptom.

 

[negrogesic]

Well if you plan to continue I'd definitely recommend supplementing with things like sodium r-lipoic acid (Na-R-ALA) and magnesium glycinate to try to mediate some of the toxicity. Perhaps even more impactful would be avoid missing that first night of sleep.

 

[uglyfrog]

The pattern of abuse doesn't sound too alarming on the surface (the doses are lowish since from what I understand UK speed is rather low purity) and the binges are short and punctuated with decent size breaks in between, but in general, abusing amphetamines increases one risk of developing psychosis. There is a significant amount of literature on the subject, for example: https://ebmh.bmj.com/content/early/2022/01/18/ebmental-2021-300300

Certain people are more susceptible to this, and for some, the state can linger long after the abuse stops.

How long do you notice the paranoia/delusions lasting after the drug has worn off?

If you plan on continuing to use amphetamine you should consider supplements to reduce the neurotoxicity. Amphetamine psychosis seems to occur via a glutaminergic pathway, so you might consider consuming magnesium glycinate towards the tail end of the experience. This will not stop the phenomenon however but may reduce the some of the neurotoxicity and slow the progression.

Generally, stimulant psychosis is a sign of neurotoxicity, and continues to get worse and worse overtime. I have never experienced it from amphetamine or even methamphetamine. And while I have experienced psychotomimetic states from large doses of crack cocaine, these more resembled serotonergic frank hallucinations (ie, "tripping") than classic stimulant psychosis (which tend to consist of delusions and paranoia). Interestingly I have experienced classic symptoms of stimulant psychosis from large daily doses of methylphenidate (~160mg/day), which tooks months to develop. I have also experienced more rapidly developing stimulant psychosis from "bath salts" (synthetic cathinones like MDPV and a-PVP). The case of methylphenidate stimulant psychosis was perhaps the most insidious as it was the most slowly developing. It did stop however once I discontinued.

If you are experiencing strong symptoms of stimulant psychosis from what sounds like relatively modest use of amphetamine then you might consider discontinuing its use as the depth of the psychosis only gets worse over time. Personally, with regard to methylphenidate and bath salt stimulant psychosis, I found a certain fun in the mania of it, trying to find out who was attempting to monitor me, etc. However I feel as if I permanently hurt my neck by holding my ear up to the walls for an extended periods of time trying to listen to who ever was watching me. At times it felt like I was being recorded on some sort of surveillance system where the person/persons monitoring me had accidentally enabled some sort of two-way communication system that allowed me to hear them discussing my surveillance.

While I was able to walk away from the depths of stimulant psychosis seemingly unscathed, I can assure you that, in actuality, I didn't. Such states are a manifestation of some pretty serious neurotoxicity. Some people however, such as myself, seem to bounce back rather easily from such states, while others don't. You may be among the unlucky who don't bounce back quite as easily, so I would exercise extreme caution (especially since you have been able precipitate stimulant psychosis with relatively light use).

Need help quitting ritalin binge​

I've been using about 200mg of Ritalin for 6 days. I don't feel any pleasure anymore but I'm scared to death to stop because of the comedown. Should I taper off to lessen the comedown? I'm sleeping, eating and keeping hydrated. I'm taking l-tyrosine, Vit C, B Complex, Vit D and Magnesium. My psychiatrist prescribed me pregabalin and modafinil for the comedown. And obviously stop taking Ritalin. I started the pregaba and moda today but still took some Ritalin (much smaller doses than the other days). But i know I have to stop now. Do you know anything about pregabalin and modafinil for the comedown? I'm not taking them to get high.