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Tryptamines Advice for dealing with unpleasant body-load from 4-ho-met

G

ganglion

Greenlighter
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
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2
Hi, long-time lurker, first time-poster.

Intro: I got into the RC scene in approximately '99, and explored a decent variety of the RC phenethylamines & tryptamines: amt, dpt (my favorite at the time; too bad it's scheduled where I live now), 5-meo-dmt, 5-meo-dipt, dipt, 2-ct-2, 2-ct-7, etc. I got married, started a family, kicked off a decent career, etc, and just recently I realized I hadn't taken a single psychedelic in over 14 years!

After spending nearly a month doing some careful research on RC compounds & sources, I finally found a reputable source and procured some 4-ho-met. Last weekend, my wife and I took an intro dose of 10mg (for me) & 7 mg (for her). We both had an amazing time; very enjoyable, with some strong empathic connection, lots of laughs, some decent CEV's (and hints of OEVs) and some quite surprising sexy-time effects (was not expecting this, but was pleasantly surprised). The only downside is that we both experienced several waves of unpleasant body-load. In particular, some muscle-spasms, tremors (similar to a shiver, but more pronounced), and finally some painful leg cramps.

Question: Has anyone else experienced this with 4-ho-met, or other 4-subs (I've read a couple reports of this sort of body-load, but only in passing), and if so, does anyone have any advice on how to prevent it? We'd like to go for a slightly heavier dose next time, but only if we can control or suppress this body-load. We are both fairly athletic and had both finished a workout earlier in the day, which I suspect may have triggered or exacerbated these symptoms. Any thoughts there? BTW, I have read that magnesium supplementation can help with spasms/cramps but I don't tolerate magnesium citrate well at all. Paradoxically, even 0.5g makes me feel wired and keeps me awake nearly all night, even when taken in the morning.
 
ganglion said:
Question: Has anyone else experienced this with 4-ho-met, or other 4-subs (I've read a couple reports of this sort of body-load, but only in passing), and if so, does anyone have any advice on how to prevent it? We'd like to go for a slightly heavier dose next time, but only if we can control or suppress this body-load. We are both fairly athletic and had both finished a workout earlier in the day, which I suspect may have triggered or exacerbated these symptoms. Any thoughts there? BTW, I have read that magnesium supplementation can help with spasms/cramps but I don't tolerate magnesium citrate well at all. Paradoxically, even 0.5g makes me feel wired and keeps me awake nearly all night, even when taken in the morning.
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I personally haven't had much of a body load beyond a headache and mild muscle pain with 15 or 21mg 4-HO-MET. Sometimes lower doses of psychs can be worse than higher ones in that regard. See how 15mg treats you.

I've gotten awful body-load from 4-HO-MiPT (30mg, I believe equivalent to ~50mg 4-HO-MET). I hadn't slept in a while and had also done a heavy workout that day. I got insomnia, painful muscle cramps, leg and forearm pain, etc that lasted until I fell asleep ~15-18 hours after taking the MiPT. LSD used to give me similar effects (Since taking 0.1mg of Clonidine and ~30mg of CBD every time I trip in addition to the usual magnesium and ginger, I have had no issues) as did psilocybin like @PriestTheyCalledHim also experiences.

Sleeping well beforehand, taking ginger + magnesium + maybe CBD, and not going too hard with the workout that day can all help. (I find that foregoing a workout when tripping can be annoying, the mental effects are far more pleasant if you've exercised that day) Magnesium citrate is a weird one. 200mg of elemental magnesium in the form of Bisglycinate/glycinate is what I take. I'd suggest buying some off Amazon or from your local health food store. Make sure that it is 100% glycinate and isn't cut with oxide or citrate.
 
I suspect the bodyload is from vasoconstriction so if it's too much i'd try to counteract with warm blankets and perhaps a moderate amount of alcoholic drinks. Also i think staying hydrated and eating some fruits could help. Mostly i try to remind myself that drugs like these are not dangerous in normal amounts and will not cause a medical emergency. The bodyload for me is a part of the trip and the spiritual cleansing aspect. Taking psychedelics is a bit of work to me, at least the typical tryptamines. I can feel the ways in which the bodyload connects to anxieties in my default mode which are exposed during the flood of onset. Then i often experience some relief about 2 hours in and it becomes very enjoyable, creative.
 
Mjäll said:
I suspect the bodyload is from vasoconstriction so if it's too much i'd try to counteract with warm blankets and perhaps a moderate amount of alcoholic drinks. Also i think staying hydrated and eating some fruits could help. Mostly i try to remind myself that drugs like these are not dangerous in normal amounts and will not cause a medical emergency. The bodyload for me is a part of the trip and the spiritual cleansing aspect. Taking psychedelics is a bit of work to me, at least the typical tryptamines. I can feel the ways in which the bodyload connects to anxieties in my default mode which are exposed during the flood of onset. Then i often experience some relief about 2 hours in and it becomes very enjoyable, creative.
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@Mjäll is right, 100% is vasoconstriction. Alcohol can hurt the introspection of a trip but (from experience) a couple beers combo with 4-HO-MET drastically better than they do with other psychs. A hot shower, stretching, drinking some water, and eating some fruit are all great ways to deal with it.
 
I found very slight body load from 4-ho-met relative to say 4-aco-dmt, maybe a little something in the stomach and skin, in terms of slight parathesia.

That said oral or intranasal makes me feel weird on the comeup, probably due to past heavy benzo abuse which has made me more prone to anxiety. For this reason i prefer to smoke 4-ho-met (don't attempt because you probably have the fumerate salt).
 
I've noticed taking full dose of quality magnesium helps with vasoconstriction with both stimulants and psychedelics. Another favorite is taking phenibut beforehand, but that combination might provide a different kind of high than what are you expecting. Other things would include doing cardio as a part of healthy lifestyle - this definitely helps with cardiovascular side effects and probably with other side effects as well.

Some supplements like multivitamins could perhaps help long-term. Hydration and meals are important. Set and setting is also important because if for whatever reason you're experiencing a slight hint of anxiety or being uncomfortable it could be heavily exacerbated by the drug. Like negrogesic said, other drugs (or lack of them) can also be very bad - for example if you're withdrawing from benzos than any stimulant or psychedelic would be a heavy no-no. Same probably goes for narcotics.
 
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Deffo magnesium bisglicinate is the most bioavailable. Citrate and carbonate are just laxants.

I also agree with the guy who said that bodyload is a kind of energetic cleansing you only use to get it in the first trips. The last 10 years I havent get bodyload (unless with heavy dosages)
 
ganglion said:
The only downside is that we both experienced several waves of unpleasant body-load. In particular, some muscle-spasms, tremors (similar to a shiver, but more pronounced), and finally some painful leg cramps.
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Sounds like a typical 4-sub body load to me. I get something akin to that from every... single... tryptamine! As a result I much prefer phenethylamines and lysergimides. Or if I do take tryptamines, I load up with opioids, benzos, or booze to lighten the load.
 
Thanks for the ideas/thoughts.

Update: Dosed again with slightly higher doses, and this time had much less body-load than previously experienced. Had another very enjoyable experience...probably the least body-load/intensity-of-effects ratio of any tryptamine (as far as I can recall...it's been years) along with great peak effects, similar to what I previously described. Felt joyful and less irritable for about 4-5 days afterwards, with the feeling slowly tapering off. I did experience one or two short waves of muscle tightness, however it was minor. We didn't exercise the day-of, took a warm shower during the come-up and also didn't eat for several hours before dosing. Some or all these factors seemed to have made a big difference.

I have to say, I think 4-HO-MET is the most enjoyable tryptamine I've tried! Not much anxiety, interesting/beautiful OEV & CEVs, with over-all quite a 'light' feeling to it.

For those mentioning that all tryptamines have a body-load: I should have clarified that my body-load I described in my initial post felt substantially worse than I can recall any of the tryptamines I listed above (including mushrooms & LSD). This wasn't a typical tryptamine body-load (at least not typical for me). I wonder if there are any sort of "de-sensitization" effects, where the first dose had a greater body-load (especially since we hadn't tripped in years), but by the second dose I kind of 'adjusted' to it somehow? Probably not, as I've never really heard of that before and I don't remember mushrooms being like that for me personally, but just a thought...

EDIT: ah, yeah I guess Hexagon Sun mentioned something like that above:

I also agree with the guy who said that bodyload is a kind of energetic cleansing you only use to get it in the first trips. The last 10 years I havent get bodyload (unless with heavy dosages)
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I think the most nausea comes on the first trip - after that you sort of get used to it.

Take the dose in two seperate doses 10 mins apart. Lay down for an hour. Should be ok.
 
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