2,3 MDMA or 6-Methy MDA - low potency Positional/Functional Isomers of MDMA

[Brenner]

On topic: Biscuit - did you mean to suggest that the issues MDMA is presenting these issues as a result of by-product contamination in PMK-glycidate synth'd MDMA? As in - the by-products created during imperfect clandestine synthesis of MDMA when using PMK-glycidate as the precursor are potentially responsible for the prevalence of negative effects reported by MDMA users these past years?

Its still a debate going on in the other topic. Personally I'm still of the opinion that its the Isomer ratio that's been off on the recent MDMA. Maybe not completely R Isomer but possible something like 90/10 R Isomer to S Isomer. This would explain why recent pills are packing over 200mg (some nearly 300 now). The R isomer is reported to require a higher dose and is more of a psychedelic (where as S is reportedly a stimulant) which again would explain why people can just sit / lie down on the stuff. There may be other things going on too but i'm willing to bet this is a contributing factor

 

[Jabberwocky]

On topic: Biscuit - did you mean to suggest that the issues MDMA is presenting these issues as a result of by-product contamination in PMK-glycidate synth'd MDMA? As in - the by-products created during imperfect clandestine synthesis of MDMA when using PMK-glycidate as the precursor are potentially responsible for the prevalence of negative effects reported by MDMA users these past years?

You can't use PMK-glycidate without

FIRST converting it

BACK

to

PMK

where it came from in the first place.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The forensic government laboratories cannot afford to misidentify seized drugs in drug prosecutions; if this routinely occurred, it would bring the entire system into disrepute.

Argue with the American Chemical Society, Oxford Journal , and the NIH -- which I cited above -- re: positional and other structural isomers

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thought, I would just post an I told you so to all the people that shot this premise down.

This first link is from a document that states there are at least 10 regioisomers, and or isobaric compounds that are very hard to distinguish using only mass spectrometry and also elute from the column around the same time.

The discussion states that many of those are precursors that are contaminating the sample and also failures in the synthesis process.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/236243.pdf

This next link details how to actually synthesize the 18 structural isomers and isobaric compounds.

It also describes The problems associated with both mass spectrometry and high performance liquid chromatography due to elution times being extremely similar.

http://etd.auburn.edu/bitstream/handle/10415/1304/AWAD_TAMER_45.pdf.txt?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

There's also another paper written by Mr. Tamer, that describes having to derive acylated products of the regioisomers and isobaric compounds in order to properly determine what amount of 3,4-MDMA, is actually in the sample.

There's another post on here that describes the 2008 paper that found regio isomers in nine out of 28 pills.

One such isomer, is J

Erowid Online Books : "PIHKAL" - #94 J

Entry #94 J from PiHKAL by Alexander & Ann Shulgin.

erowid.org

J is said per trip reports to be " not quite ecstasy but almost"

The empathogenic and entactogenic qualities are much less and it's a stoning high.

People ask why would there be these structural isomers?

1. Poor cook, they cut corners and had leftover reactants as well as some non-standard reactions.

2. They are purposely cooking chemicals that are cheaper easier to make but close enough to the subjective effects of MDMA to fool somebody for the first hour, hour and a half.

(1- bromopropane is not controlled. And you can get to piperanol from vanillin - now you have a great start to make BDB or J - without touching a controlled precursor)

This link talks about alternative cooks using vanillin to make piperanol.

Synthesis and impurity profiling of MDMA prepared from commonly available starting materials - PubMed

This work examines the synthesis of 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine (MDMA) from common starting materials that may be utilised by clandestine laboratory operators. Piperonal was prepared from two common starting materials, piperine (from pepper) and vanillin (a common flavouring)...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

3. If you read the paper where they describe the process for synthesizing all of these isobaric compounds structural isomers, you'll see that it's not hard to go off the actual sense. If you're trying to use a different precursor set to get to where you're going. Going. And when you get there you have a bunch of crap that you didn't want.