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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Opioids Codeine Ceiling and redosing

S

saadman

Greenlighter
Joined
May 11, 2024
Messages
8
Bit of background: I used to be heavy IV heroin user on the streets and terribly depressed.

I hit rock bottom and got off the H and stopped IVing. I wouldn’t say I’m depressed anymore (mentally anyway, but I suffer chronic fatigue which sucks)
I am married, a homeowner and have a kid. I drive I nice car and my life is generally pretty nice. So no risk of going back to H. My wife puts up with me CWEing because she knows I have some legit back pain problems but it’s not ideal. It gives me nausea and I usually throw up and barely even really get a buzz anymore. I do it mostly out of habit.

I CWE OTC cocodamol on the daily, at first it was one pack a day, then two, now I take 3 packs at once usually twice a day.
That’s theoretically 768mg a dose, though I’d say probably 500-600mg in reality due to loses in extraction.
It’s a pain in the ass because I literally have to hit every pharmacy in a 10 mile radius so as not to be seen going to any more than once a week.

I wonder is my twice daily dosing taking away from the buzz or is my tolerance just at the point where the dose I can get from codeine isn’t enough. It’s weird though because I don’t really get terrible withdrawals when I don’t use. Nothing like when I was on heroin anyway.

Is there a consensus on long it takes for your liver enzymes to recharge or replenish?

If I got morphine tablets would I take 60mg for an equivalent dose or because the oral bioavailability sucks would I need to take more?
 
saadman said:
Bit of background: I used to be heavy IV heroin user on the streets and terribly depressed.

I hit rock bottom and got off the H and stopped IVing. I wouldn’t say I’m depressed anymore (mentally anyway, but I suffer chronic fatigue which sucks)
I am married, a homeowner and have a kid. I drive I nice car and my life is generally pretty nice. So no risk of going back to H. My wife puts up with me CWEing because she knows I have some legit back pain problems but it’s not ideal. It gives me nausea and I usually throw up and barely even really get a buzz anymore. I do it mostly out of habit.

I CWE OTC cocodamol on the daily, at first it was one pack a day, then two, now I take 3 packs at once usually twice a day.
That’s theoretically 768mg a dose, though I’d say probably 500-600mg in reality due to loses in extraction.
It’s a pain in the ass because I literally have to hit every pharmacy in a 10 mile radius so as not to be seen going to any more than once a week.

I wonder is my twice daily dosing taking away from the buzz or is my tolerance just at the point where the dose I can get from codeine isn’t enough. It’s weird though because I don’t really get terrible withdrawals when I don’t use. Nothing like when I was on heroin anyway.

Is there a consensus on long it takes for your liver enzymes to recharge or replenish?

If I got morphine tablets would I take 60mg for an equivalent dose or because the oral bioavailability sucks would I need to take more?
Click to expand...

That is some heavy use mate, and regardless of your technique, you're not going to remove all of that paracetamol, leading to a fucked liver and total inability to gain any consolation from codeine.

As you say, codeine is relatively easy to withdraw from in comparison to a heroin habit, so why not try sacking it completely?

I personally am totally unable to derive any enjoyment from codeine any more, either in pure form or CWE from co-codamol etc.

I miss it, but there comes a time when you have to say goodbye.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
That is some heavy use mate, and regardless of your technique, you're not going to remove all of that paracetamol, leading to a fucked liver and total inability to gain any consolation from codeine.

As you say, codeine is relatively easy to withdraw from in comparison to a heroin habit, so why not try sacking it completely?

I personally am totally unable to derive any enjoyment from codeine any more, either in pure form or CWE from co-codamol etc.

I miss it, but there comes a time when you have to say goodbye.
Click to expand...
Yea I think this has to happen. There’s two ways this goes… I move back to heavier opis and fuck up what is a really good life or I sack it. I know what’s the obvious right choice but it’s easier said than done even when I’m not getting anything from it anymore…
 
@F.U.B.A.R. Tough thing is there’s not really any support I can reach out to because if I went to my GP or any public services they’d put a big black mark on my record and cause me trouble in future and I’d risk losing my driving license which I can’t afford.
I already have a tough time with getting healthcare because they have me as a user from back in the day.
 
I understand your pain pal. I am currently going threw the medical system here in the states for a slipped disk and have gotten very little help in the form of medication or anything else for relief. I have a a guy I go to and can get 15mg oxys BUT it come with a whole lotta guilt. I also have a wife and young son. My wife understands that I’m in pain but I will also be the first to admit I take more then enough to cover the pain but I’m also looking for that buzz. I always flirted with the line of addiction. Opiates being the main jam but I could get down on Xanax or blow too. Sorry for rambling, that’s all to say I understand a little bit of what you’re going through. I also need to sack the use of non prescribed drugs before I fuck up what I’ve built. Hope you can make it threw buddy!
 
@nor'easter just be careful bud because those 15s will turn to 30s then you’ll be hitting the 40s then the 80s.
I use benzos very rarely and only pharmaceutically when I’m suffering a bout of insomnia. They really don’t give me a buzz, I hardly feel anything and if I take too much I literally just lose a day or two of my life and die from anxiety wondering what I did, where I went, who did I talk to etc etc.

My wife’s family are all religious and good living (as I should be - I don’t drink but the opis still have me because I use the excuse of legit pain problems to cling on) so the thought that I’d be in any way fucked up in front of them is utterly terrifying.
 
I understand what you’re saying. I started dabbling with oxy right at the end of the pill mill days. I remember when I could grab a 30mg blue for less then a dollar a mg. Maybe because I’m from New England and a ton of them were coming out of Mass and CT. Everywhere really. So I’m fairly “ experienced” unfortunately. Up until last year I STILL had 2 connects for real pharma blues. Both plugs died of fee as so often is the case here. Anyways, I’ll be thinking about your situation, stay strong pal!
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
That is some heavy use mate, and regardless of your technique, you're not going to remove all of that paracetamol, leading to a fucked liver and total inability to gain any consolation from codeine.

As you say, codeine is relatively easy to withdraw from in comparison to a heroin habit, so why not try sacking it completely?

I personally am totally unable to derive any enjoyment from codeine any more, either in pure form or CWE from co-codamol etc.

I miss it, but there comes a time when you have to say goodbye.
Click to expand...

It depends on dose, though. And duration.
Someone who has been on a very large dosage of codeine for many years will 100% have a worse withdrawal than someone using moderate doses of heroin for a couple months.
I VERY much doubt OP can cold turkey from that much codeine.
 
saadman said:
Bit of background: I used to be heavy IV heroin user on the streets and terribly depressed.

I hit rock bottom and got off the H and stopped IVing. I wouldn’t say I’m depressed anymore (mentally anyway, but I suffer chronic fatigue which sucks)
I am married, a homeowner and have a kid. I drive I nice car and my life is generally pretty nice. So no risk of going back to H. My wife puts up with me CWEing because she knows I have some legit back pain problems but it’s not ideal. It gives me nausea and I usually throw up and barely even really get a buzz anymore. I do it mostly out of habit.

I CWE OTC cocodamol on the daily, at first it was one pack a day, then two, now I take 3 packs at once usually twice a day.
That’s theoretically 768mg a dose, though I’d say probably 500-600mg in reality due to loses in extraction.
It’s a pain in the ass because I literally have to hit every pharmacy in a 10 mile radius so as not to be seen going to any more than once a week.

I wonder is my twice daily dosing taking away from the buzz or is my tolerance just at the point where the dose I can get from codeine isn’t enough. It’s weird though because I don’t really get terrible withdrawals when I don’t use. Nothing like when I was on heroin anyway.

Is there a consensus on long it takes for your liver enzymes to recharge or replenish?

If I got morphine tablets would I take 60mg for an equivalent dose or because the oral bioavailability sucks would I need to take more?
Click to expand...

60mg oral morphine is the same as 600mg oral codeine.
The standard opioid scale uses specifically oral morphine.

So on the scale where oral morphine is a 1 and something half as strong would be a 0.5 and something twice as strong would be a 2, it's approx:

Codeine 0.1
Tramadol 0.1
Dihydrocodeine 0.2
Oral Morphine 1
Oxycodone 1.5
IV Morphine 3

etc etc
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
Can you get hold of poppy pods without much risk / fuss? Poppy tea is pretty effective and should hold you for the pain symptoms, and no strain on the liver from the paracetamol.
Click to expand...

Make sure they definitely UNWASHED poppy pods/seeds. Most places they are. I find like small Asian markets tend to have the real unwashed stuff. Definitely not supermarkets or big chain stores or anything like that. Little "Mom n Pop" places etc.
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
60mg oral morphine is the same as 600mg oral codeine.
The standard opioid scale uses specifically oral morphine.

So on the scale where oral morphine is a 1 and something half as strong would be a 0.5 and something twice as strong would be a 2, it's approx:

Codeine 0.1
Tramadol 0.1
Dihydrocodeine 0.2
Oral Morphine 1
Oxycodone 1.5
IV Morphine 3

etc etc
Click to expand...
Yea Im aware of these equivalencies however I understand that morphine oral bioavailability is only like 20% or something along those lines.

So say I’m getting a 10% conversion from 600mg codeine, that would be 60mg in my blood, whereas 60mg oral morphine would only get me like 12mg actually absorbed into my system, or am I thinking about this wrong?
 
ChemicallyEnhanced said:
It depends on dose, though. And duration.
Someone who has been on a very large dosage of codeine for many years will 100% have a worse withdrawal than someone using moderate doses of heroin for a couple months.
I VERY much doubt OP can cold turkey from that much codeine.
Click to expand...

Cold turkey does bring on some withdrawals but when I say I was a heavy IV H user in the past I mean I was seriously heavy user. Sometimes 3g + per day. So maybe just my reference point for what is a tough withdrawal is warped.
 
saadman said:
Yea Im aware of these equivalencies however I understand that morphine oral bioavailability is only like 20% or something along those lines.

So say I’m getting a 10% conversion from 600mg codeine, that would be 60mg in my blood, whereas 60mg oral morphine would only get me like 12mg actually absorbed into my system, or am I thinking about this wrong?
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't work like that. The opioid conversion thing takes stuff like that into account. If you take 60mg morphine, it will be EXACTLY the same as taking 600mg codeine. This is why IV morphine (100% bioavailability) is 3 x stronger than oral morphine (~30% bioavailability). So 60mg oral morphine = 600mg codeine and 20mg IV morphine would equal 600mg codeine, or 60mg morphine.
I promise :)
 
saadman said:
@ChemicallyEnhanced @TheUltimateFixx

In terms of poppy pods are there any online UK vendors you’re aware of?
(Apologies if vendor discussion ain’t allowed, but it’s technically legal right?)
Anyway if I’m breaking any rules just disregard.
Click to expand...

I have no idea, I've never used/bought them before. I'm fairly confident I've seen them on the deep web, but not sure about the clearnet. We're VERY close to breaking rules here* so I can't really say anything else.

*But since it's legal and I haven't actually given you any sources or information on getting them (couldn't even if I wanted to), I think we're okay.
 
saadman said:
Cold turkey does bring on some withdrawals but when I say I was a heavy IV H user in the past I mean I was seriously heavy user. Sometimes 3g + per day. So maybe just my reference point for what is a tough withdrawal is warped.
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah, that's definitely a huge difference.
 
saadman said:
@ChemicallyEnhanced @TheUltimateFixx

In terms of poppy pods are there any online UK vendors you’re aware of?
(Apologies if vendor discussion ain’t allowed, but it’s technically legal right?)
Anyway if I’m breaking any rules just disregard.
Click to expand...

It pays to look round florist's supplies because the dried pods are popular for making flower arrangements, and sold completely legitimately for that purpose. Plus Asian markets for unwashed seeds.
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
Can you get hold of poppy pods without much risk / fuss? Poppy tea is pretty effective and should hold you for the pain symptoms, and no strain on the liver from the paracetamol.
Click to expand...
Poppy pods are bad for the heart and other organs because of all the alkaloids. Some pods/seeds are also thebaine types and have a high risk of poisoning.

It's just a tradeoff.
 
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