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Marijuana culture. ("420")

have you smoked with a family member?

  • Yes

    Votes: 341 67.7%

  • No, my family sucks

    Votes: 163 32.3%
  • Total voters
    504
Joints

I really wonder by whom and when the socalled joint was "invented". When I say joint I'm talking about a marihuana cigarette laced with tobacco (or a cigarette laced with cannabis). Here in Europe nearly everyone is smoking its weed mixed with tobacco and I wonder how we got into this, in my perspective, bizar tradition?
 
Jibult said:
You fuckers are weird.

That's all there is to it.
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^ this. Why would you mix tabaco wit weed theres no point at all. just smoke a joint (only gettin 10% of the THC) and smoke a cigarette and pray to get high. joints suck.
 
perhaps to answer your question we need to ask when was the cigarette invented?

i had always believed it was invented by beggars in 16th. century cadiz, unable to afford pipes or tobacco, they rolled tobacco sweepings from the dock floor and smoked them up in paper. i am unable to find any googles to back this up.

wiki answers says:

In 1743 an English begger by the name of Horrey Thornfield propositioned a local butcher for some scraps. After enjoying the scarps, Horrey decided to have a smoke, yet discovered that his previous nights' drunken gambling rampage had caused him to lose his favorite smoking pipe in a card game. With nothing on him but his butcher scraps paper, Horrey ripped off a slice of the wax butcher paper and rolled the worlds first cigarette.

i'm not sure about that though, how has this rogue's name been recorded? on the back of a fag packet? lol

further searches give:

1832:- The cigarette is invented by an Egyptian artilleryman during the siege of Acre. the Egyptian's cannon crew had improved their rate of fire by rolling the gunpowder in paper tubes. For this, he and his crew were rewarded with a pound of tobacco.Their only pipe was broken, so they took to rolling the pipe tobacco in the paper tubes.

i like this one, cos these guys would have easy and more importantly culturally accepted access to weed, and it wouldn't take long for some bright spark to come up with the idea of throwing a bit of weed into the mix.

so my answer is 1832, by an egyptian in acre, and like so many inventions, a direct result of war and mans desire to kill other people.

plausible and ironic.

i dreamt about smoking joints the other night. i used to roll them 150mm long and they were so tidy they looked like a factory rolled spliff.

there is a strange synergy with weed and tobacco, the nicotine gives weed a huge body load which some people like. joints always turned my eyes red, and i would have cold fingertips and toes, all signs of a huge drop in blood pressure

disgusting stuff, glad i'm clean of it now.
 
leet said:
perhaps to answer your question we need to ask when was the cigarette invented?
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Well, I think it's obvious that the cigarette was "invented" before the mixed weed tobacco joint. Personally I think the rise of this strange cultural habit is somehow correlated with the rise of the "coffeeshop empire". I don't have any proof of this but (for now) but I suspect that coffeeshops noticed there was something like a mixed weed-tobacco-joint and they jumped on it, just because this way they will be able to sell more of their product. So I'm wondering if anyone can confirm or deny this assumption? When exactly did the coffeeshop emerge anyway?


leet said:
i like this one, cos these guys would have easy and more importantly culturally accepted access to weed, and it wouldn't take long for some bright spark to come up with the idea of throwing a bit of weed into the mix.

so my answer is 1832, by an egyptian in acre, and like so many inventions, a direct result of war and mans desire to kill other people.

plausible and ironic.
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I'm not very sure 'bout this: I mean you may be right concerning the "invention" of the cigarette, but why would they start adding hash or cannabis to their cigarette? No matter how you look at it, it's a very odd thing to do. Cannabis was in those days most likely considered as something sacred; why would they mix it up with ordinary tobacco? I don't see any advantages.

I can defintely relate to what sarsXdave is saying! You know it's been said that "culture is the one thing you can not deliberatly aim at" (TS ELiot) and I fully understand what is meant with this, but I think that this is no longer 100 procent accurate. It seems to me that nowadays multinationals, governments and others are trying to push ppl into certain directions when in comes to cultural habits. I find it hard to believe that the cultural habit of smoking pot mixed with tobacco was created by a natural process; I have a strong feeling that somehow this habit was imposed upon us because of the profit of others (in this case the coffeeshop owners, growers and everyone else involved in this nasty bussiness).



leet said:
there is a strange synergy with weed and tobacco, the nicotine gives weed a huge body load which some people like. joints always turned my eyes red, and i would have cold fingertips and toes, all signs of a huge drop in blood pressure
disgusting stuff, glad i'm clean of it now.
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Unfortunately I'm quite experienced when it comes to smoking this filty combo and I can relate to what you're saying (to some extend). I believe that the only reason why ppl like this, is because they never experienced weed in its pure form. Also you should take in account that once you get habituated to this way of smoking (mixed whit tobacco that is), it's extremely hard to go back. Even though you'll exeperience a more intense high smoke, even though you will no longer feel the urge to smoke one spliff after the other, you'll feel something is missing (a bit like you've given up on a friend). In fact I've heard ppl say they don't get high off smoking pure joints! (and those were the most heavy mixed-joint-smokers). That thing which is missing, is IMO most probably the nicotine, I can think of another explenation.

I also feel releaved now that I've finally found the strenght to quit this disgusting habit, but I'm fully aware that I still need to be very cautious.

I also like to remark that the saying "less is more" which is definetely true when you smoke cannabis in pure form, doesn't apply anymore once tobacco is involved. The ppl I know of who smoke it non purely are having a similar approach to pot smoking as others do towards drinking. The one who can smoke the largest joints with the most weed included (but also some tobacco) without getting all too high is considered to be the "coolest" dude, the one who can smoke "the best of all". Just as it goes with drinking: the more you can drink without getting really drunk, the more popular you'll be (with a specific group of ppl that is, didn't mean to generalize).


ps: not sure about this, but maybe this thread belongs in some other subforum?
 
i used too. i smoked too much of those and got addicted, which SUCKED. ill smoke one every now and again (i love them) but i love the just weed high just as much
 
i dont think weed was 'sacred' in 1832, specially not to some soldiers. still, i agree with you about the macho culture around tobacco with smoking the most fattest and weed packed joints and not getting stoned is regarded as desirable. that is weird.

since iu stopped smoking tobacco my weed goes x² further, and i get higher. i dont hang with my old buddies as they get too stoned on bongs and refuse them, but chain smoke spliffs and fill the air with thick banks of choking smoke.

i did miss joints for ages, i dreamt about smoking them last week, but i could never again inhale that roiling greasy smoke.

not even charas, which made my bestest spliff.

there is a huge culture of denial around tobacco by its addicts. its a terrible drug
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-Pay

Pay-Pay is the oldest brand of cigarette rolling paper in the world. Pay-Pay rolling papers were originally traded by Spanish sailors for cotton and tobacco in North America; this is the earliest record of a paper entering the North American market Pay-Pay brand papers have been available for over 300 years; their packs and styles have changed greatly over this time.

Pay-Pay is produced in Alcoy, Spain. The paper is made from pure hemp with sweet sugar glue.

When a spanish sailor had some weed that was too wet.
 
drscience said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-Pay

Pay-Pay is the oldest brand of cigarette rolling paper in the world. Pay-Pay rolling papers were originally traded by Spanish sailors for cotton and tobacco in North America; this is the earliest record of a paper entering the North American market Pay-Pay brand papers have been available for over 300 years; their packs and styles have changed greatly over this time.

Pay-Pay is produced in Alcoy, Spain. The paper is made from pure hemp with sweet sugar glue.

When a spanish sailor had some weed that was too wet.
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i was right! w00t!
 
leet said:
i dont think weed was 'sacred' in 1832, specially not to some soldiers.
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Sacred or not, it doesn't really matter, the thing is that I cannot understand why someone who's familiar with smoking pure weed, would suddenly begin to add tobacco to his joints? In my perspective tobacco masks the effect of weed.

leet said:
since iu stopped smoking tobacco my weed goes x² further, and i get higher. i dont hang with my old buddies as they get too stoned on bongs and refuse them, but chain smoke spliffs and fill the air with thick banks of choking smoke.
Click to expand...

For me the impact is even more noticable: I used to smoke at least 2 gr a day and currently I'm smoking less then a 1 gr a month!

The "funny" thing is I never really enjoyed smoking joints. Back in 2003 I was allready smoking pure, but somehow I was tricked back into this (around 2006). So you see it took me quite a while to get back to where I used to be.

I know what you're saying 'bout those old smoking buddies: IMO ppl like that are real addicts, you got to feel sorry for them.

leet said:
i did miss joints for ages, i dreamt about smoking them last week, but i could never again inhale that roiling greasy smoke.
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This happened to me too (during one of my previous attempts) and it really upset me. Afterwards it turned out this dream came true somehow... :\
So I don't think this is a good sign, it seems to me you're still strugling with it.

What do you mean with ages (several months or several years)?
 
drscience said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-Pay

Pay-Pay is the oldest brand of cigarette rolling paper in the world. Pay-Pay rolling papers were originally traded by Spanish sailors for cotton and tobacco in North America; this is the earliest record of a paper entering the North American market Pay-Pay brand papers have been available for over 300 years; their packs and styles have changed greatly over this time.

Pay-Pay is produced in Alcoy, Spain. The paper is made from pure hemp with sweet sugar glue.

When a spanish sailor had some weed that was too wet.
Click to expand...

Very well, but could you tell me when people started smoking mixed joints? Also I'd like to know when exactly coffeeshops opened their doors.
 
i think mixing is a product of tobacco smoking practices in europe. here in the states, most smokers just buy packs of cigarettes, as they're relatively cheap (or were before the taxes sky-rocketed), but tobacco is more expensive in europe, and thus folks already had rolling papers and tobacco on hand when pot came around. it may have just not occurred to americans to add tobacco back in the 60's/70's when marijuana really hit popular culture, as they didn't associate rolling papers with rolling tobacco to the same extent that europeans did.

and when high-grade pot became more widely available, the americans were less habituated to rolling and went to pipes/bongs, whereas the europeans just did the easiest thing for them, which was to stretch the pot out by adding more tobacco.

another major factor, IMO, is the relative prevalence of hashish. if pipes aren't a big part of smoking culture, tobacco is the natural medium for smoking hash. europe has a lot more hash, and a lot fewer people smoking out of pipes. in the states it's the opposite (little hash, lots of folks w/ bongs/pipes).

lots of generalizations, and i don't really know anything about smoking culture in australia (another place where spliffs enjoy a lot of popularity), so don't think i'm stating facts (or that i'm even too sure if i'm right), but it seems like it could make sense.
 
double ewe said:
i think mixing is a product of tobacco smoking practices in europe. here in the states, most smokers just buy packs of cigarettes, as they're relatively cheap (or were before the taxes sky-rocketed), but tobacco is more expensive in europe, and thus folks already had rolling papers and tobacco on hand when pot came around. it may have just not occurred to americans to add tobacco back in the 60's/70's when marijuana really hit popular culture, as they didn't associate rolling papers with rolling tobacco to the same extent that europeans did.

and when high-grade pot became more widely available, the americans were less habituated to rolling and went to pipes/bongs, whereas the europeans just did the easiest thing for them, which was to stretch the pot out by adding more tobacco.
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I believe there might be some truth in what you're saying, but I don't see why there must be a direct link between smoking tobacco and smoking weed. Many ppl in here keep on talkin' about the history of cigarette's and tobacco, but it's all a bit a off topic IMO. If I follow your logic one might conclude that everyone involved in smoking pot is also involved in smoking tobacco. My question was how the two got mixed up!

So what if they had tobacco and rolling papers within their reach when pot became available? Many ppl smoked tobacco out of a pipe, they could have used that pipe for it. Why not just rolling it pure?


double ewe said:
another major factor, IMO, is the relative prevalence of hashish. if pipes aren't a big part of smoking culture, tobacco is the natural medium for smoking hash. europe has a lot more hash, and a lot fewer people smoking out of pipes. in the states it's the opposite (little hash, lots of folks w/ bongs/pipes).

lots of generalizations, and i don't really know anything about smoking culture in australia (another place where spliffs enjoy a lot of popularity), so don't think i'm stating facts (or that i'm even too sure if i'm right), but it seems like it could make sense.
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Even though I can understand your viewpoint somehow, I don't think this can be an explenation. There's something wrong with this logic IMO: since when are ppl smoking spliffs? Defenitely not as long as they are using pipes to smoke. So it's not that someone will actually say: let's roll a weed cigarette because this is the only way we can smoke it. Why not roll it without the tobacco? Why not get a pipe? Pipes were definetely available at the time.


double ewe said:
tobacco is the natural medium for smoking hash.
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Very sorry, but this is quite hilarious to me. As I told before, I have experience with these smoking practices and the most wastefull practice of all is IMO smoking a hash spliff. Why would someone consider this to be the natural medium? The natural medium to ruin your stash it is ;)
 
Wave Jumper said:
If I follow your logic one might conclude that everyone involved in smoking pot is also involved in smoking tobacco. My question was how the two got mixed up!
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the question is how did they get differentiated.

some people like smoking tobacco, some like cannabis, some like both.

i dont think there was an official "mix tobacco with cannabis day" 500 odd years ago or anything though. :\
 
drscience said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-Pay

Pay-Pay is the oldest brand of cigarette rolling paper in the world. Pay-Pay rolling papers were originally traded by Spanish sailors for cotton and tobacco in North America; this is the earliest record of a paper entering the North American market Pay-Pay brand papers have been available for over 300 years; their packs and styles have changed greatly over this time.

Pay-Pay is produced in Alcoy, Spain. The paper is made from pure hemp with sweet sugar glue.

When a spanish sailor had some weed that was too wet.
Click to expand...



check the source dude ;p
 
yeah i know, its amazing what weird info you can get with 30 seconds on a search engine
 
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