Scared Have i brainwashed myself or been brainwashed

Zephyn

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Oct 31, 2020
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Have i been brainwashed or have I brainwashed myself? Or do I just have trauma now? Will I be like this forever? Or is this still withdrawal from love? Or from coming off antipsychotics? After 15 years of drug use, weed used to cut it for me as a daily thing. Id occasionally use benzos, amphetamines, cocaine or opiates over the past 10, but it was never a regular thing or felt necessary just used out of boredom. The past 3 years have been very hard after some really traumatic things happened and I tried some harder stuff like meth and IV heroin, on and off and in and out of rehab because I couldn't stop, never physically dependent though or using for any more than a few months. Well nowadays I can't get by a single day without usingsomething, I do go most days with just weed, but those days are miserable. And I find myself doing stuff like drinking alcohol even though I don't even like the effects, out of like some fucked up mechanism, like today I went out, resisted the temptation to buy beer at the store cuz I knew it would just upset my stomach and cause rebound anxiety, wound up caving in, the past couple hours I've been trying to fight the urge to drink it but I'm about to. I know tomorrow ill have even worse depression and anxiety. Is there anyway out of this cycle? I've stopped all the hard stuff for months now, yet I still feel miserable. Did 12 step brainwash me? Is that why I feel guilty over drinking some beer now? Or are they right and is total abstinence the only way to let me brain heal over time? Or will this get better if I stay off the crack meth and heroin for long enough? Could this be antipsychotjc withdrawal? Is this how people with trauma and addiction problems always feel and with the ptsd im just fucked now. Do i just need a good pcp high for an after glow? (Only partially joking about the pcp, but I mean like 3meo) The only missing piece is I used to use psychedelics recreational and I'm terrified to use them now after some traumatic trips. Should I bite the bullet and take some lsd? Microdosesm mushrooms? I've got 10mg of Xanax i could take but I'm saving those, so I've got some control, obviously.
 
To make matters worse, my inexperienced drinking ass bought some bitter ass beer, I guess an IPA, again, and this shit is horrid to drink.
 
I wanted to chat with you about working together on a devops consulting firm considering we are sitting on a goldmine, but I need to get my mental health together first
 
I wanted to chat with you about working together on a devops consulting firm considering we are sitting on a goldmine, but I need to get my mental health together first
Later we will take over the world Pinky. First things first.

Your heart actually needs to come first, or you will be a bottomless pit, forever scarfing narcotics and alcohols, possibly preferring the alcohols as they have many side effects valuable to the heart wounded. What do you love about life, what gets your whole being erect and interested in this world?

Yes, your brain may be zapped by binging on anything, even drug free brains can get overstimulated from something as simple as television. Brains are amazing things we really do not understand, and I am not going to pretend to be an expert on what goes on inside them. IME meditations, especially moving ones, like Tai Chi or jogging, and regular strenuous exercise are the best things for brain recovery for some reason.

Is this how people with trauma and addiction problems always feel and with the ptsd im just fucked now.
Yes. But they are wrong. You probably don't know my story but suffice it to say, by the time addiction got its first grip on me in my early twenties, I had complicated PTSD from multiple, overlapping traumas, some from pattern abuses, completely hampering any and all attempts to recover.

After many, many years of weekly, at times daily, therapy sessions, I began to get past a facet of my C-PTSD. Not that I wouldn't have a substance abuse relapse I found traumatic, and have that mushroom out to traumatize something I thought I had just fixed. Still, it was progress and I seized on that, redoubling the effort I put in to therapy.

My ex wife was an amazing therapist as well (not her field at all, but she had a compulsion or obsession to understand and forgive me). For awhile she worked diligently on me, sometimes with simple but brutal daily exercises. I persevered here too and made progress, each time downshifting and mashing the throttle to put a trauma in the rearview and then raced hard to make it look as small as I could.

The good news is I got so far out ahead of some of them that my PTSD symptoms have been in remission for about eight years now. I still take 1mg of prazosin (aka minipress) when I sleep to pacify night terrors, but aside from that I no longer have that feeling of being fucked forever.
 
I haven't been able to take therapy seriously. Most has been IOP groups and the like for addiction, some therapists better than others, but in a sense meaningless. Plus the anxiety I feel going to a group meeting is intense for someone who used to be very extroverted. Even in rehabs I was shocked to find the other patients chatty and talkative when I myself was so overwhelmed I could barely function. Maybe some therapy less focused on addiction could be useful
 
I haven't been able to take therapy seriously. Most has been IOP groups and the like for addiction, some therapists better than others, but in a sense meaningless. Plus the anxiety I feel going to a group meeting is intense for someone who used to be very extroverted. Even in rehabs I was shocked to find the other patients chatty and talkative when I myself was so overwhelmed I could barely function. Maybe some therapy less focused on addiction could be useful
I was very lucky and scored an old school psychiatrist as as a therapist, the kind that doesn't believe all the bullshit that is currently mainstream with the mental health industrial complex. He is ancient, one of the last of his kind, and you may have to accept a bifurcation in your therapy and use two separate providers. A psychopharmacologist you meet with once a quarter who prescribes for you, and a therapist (usually credentialed as a LICSW, or licensed clinical social worker), which you meet with for 45 minutes every week, usually.

I have a rant about rehab and group therapy and addiction treatment in general. I swallowed it when I feared I might not ever quit bitching about it. I will see if I can coax back up the ol' esophagus. Gimme second.
 
my last psychiatrist concurred with my decision to take myself off everything, said we would follow up regarding antidepressants, and told me i shouldnt have done it cold turkey but at the point i was and where i was at she didnt see the need without overprescribing. one on one therapy owuld be good, ive never really had that other than in rehab which was with shitty therapists.
 
The mental health industrial complex offers psychosocial education as the primary modality of treatment for addiction, usually delivered through "groups". The materials taught are designed for the least common denominator of the group, which means its able to be consumed by adolescents with no education and who in practice may not want any further education, including the one recommended to recover from addiction. The rehab will get paid by an insurance company as long as the "patient" attends the group session and has even a small interaction with the clinician leading the group or the other group participants. The groups are designed to make meeting that criteria first, and the psychosocial education quality is secondary to that.

What am I going to learn after attending twenty or so groups? It doesn't take many weeks in rehab before they are recycling the groups and I am studying the same elementary thing I mastered, nay, absorbed into my being last week with little effort? Meanwhile, I am not mentally fit or responsible enough to use a computer, the Internet, my own phone, tell my dealer I am taking a long break or deleting his number, or walk past the liquor store without going in for 28 or X days? In my case, those are the easiest days to do the latter two, the two most important things to my recovery. It is six months or more later that I am most likely to have lost my resolve to not drink or drug, and could use the protection of a locked unit. Many times I have called and said "OK now I need you to protect me from myself". I am told they cannot help me until after I relapse. A dozen times now I have been forced to feign a suicidal dementia, in order to get myself admitted to a psych ward for the week to protect me from a substance abuse relapse.

Fuck me, I gotta smoke a bowl this shit gets me so steamed.
 
antidepressants
This is the most common medical treatment for dual diagnosis disorders (I got a rant about that too <hiccup>) and I hope it works well for you.

SSRIs are da debil for me though. If they don't make me depressed and suicidal, they feel like soda pop in my bloodstream, especially in my chest and head, and all I want to do is dance dance dance. In the late nineties someone put me on Effexor XR and man, when taken as directed it made MDMA/MDA binges feel weak by comparison (I alternated them, my tolerance seemed to tolerate them better). I wish we had bluelight back then, it would be fun to pull up archives of CD medicated that way. Actually it would probably have to be uploaded videos only, I had no patience to sit down, let alone use a keyboard.

one on one therapy owuld be good, ive never really had that other than in rehab which was with shitty therapists.
I am glad you are open to it. I think it is important. I wish more of it was done with the assistance of chems. They have ketamine microdosing therapy for depression now here in the states. I don't suffer from depression anymore so I haven't tried that. I am looking into my accounts to see if I can finance the ibogaine microdosing therapy for addition, which is only available overseas at the moment. @mr peabody just reopened a thread about that for us.

Therapy in rehab is 97% ridiculous and probably counterproductive. Therapy is a long ass process, and you need someone you can be 100% honest with. Or at least 90% honest with. I had therapy this morning, and I had to disclose all the craziness of the last couple of weeks with him. It aint easy sometimes to do that! I held back on the fact that I have a shit ton of stash, but he didn't end up asking me to flush anything or to go to rehab. He does want to see me again on Monday, so I gotta get some sun and exercise this weekend. I look a bit ghoulish, I have to admit.
 
my trauma was definitely compounded by rehabs, in general. and cutting you off from the outside world is *not healthy*.
This is the most common medical treatment for dual diagnosis disorders (I got a rant about that too <hiccup>) and I hope it works well for you.

SSRIs are da debil for me though. If they don't make me depressed and suicidal, they feel like soda pop in my bloodstream, especially in my chest and head, and all I want to do is dance dance dance. In the late nineties someone put me on Effexor XR and man, when taken as directed it made MDMA/MDA binges feel weak by comparison (I alternated them, my tolerance seemed to tolerate them better). I wish we had bluelight back then, it would be fun to pull up archives of CD medicated that way. Actually it would probably have to be uploaded videos only, I had no patience to sit down, let alone use a keyboard.


I am glad you are open to it. I think it is important. I wish more of it was done with the assistance of chems. They have ketamine microdosing therapy for depression now here in the states. I don't suffer from depression anymore so I haven't tried that. I am looking into my accounts to see if I can finance the ibogaine microdosing therapy for addition, which is only available overseas at the moment. @mr peabody just reopened a thread about that for us.

Therapy in rehab is 97% ridiculous and probably counterproductive. Therapy is a long ass process, and you need someone you can be 100% honest with. Or at least 90% honest with. I had therapy this morning, and I had to disclose all the craziness of the last couple of weeks with him. It aint easy sometimes to do that! I held back on the fact that I have a shit ton of stash, but he didn't end up asking me to flush anything or to go to rehab. He does want to see me again on Monday, so I gotta get some sun and exercise this weekend. I look a bit ghoulish, I have to admit.
im not super open to it at the moment as i would like to be able to use psychedelics which i feel like might help. if there was an antidressant that didnt block those effects i might try but i had way too good of experiences with them in the past to not believe maybe i can overcome this with them here sometime in the next year or two. i know a source in usa for ibogaine hcl so ive considered it to escape the cycle. i at least want to be able to use psilocybin and lsd whenever i have the balls for it eventually.
 
I think those helped me in the past. A solo LSD/psilocybin trip doesn't appeal to me now though. I am hoping to find RC to try that might be more compatible for someone so lonesome. I haven't really dug in to research that yet though.
 
When I was in middle school, I asked my health teacher a question.

I asked "If we as humans weren't always looking forward to the next meal, looking forward to the next fun activity, looking forward to tomorrow, then what would we live for?"

I remember she paused and then said "Well, we'd basically have nothing to live for."

I was like 11 or 12 years old, and at the time we were in the middle of the D.A.R.E curriculum.

I asked "Aren't all these drugs something that people just look forward to? Aren't these drugs giving people a reason to live?"

I don't remember verbatim the rest of the debate that I purposely provoked after my health teacher didn't want to discuss or acknowledge that drug users were perhaps experiencing the human condition in an abnormal way, but not a criminal or immoral way. I distinctly remember calling her a criminal. I was a shithead, but I wanted answers and information.

This resulted in a trip to the school counselor, which resulted in a trip to the principal, which resulted in my parents coming to my school that afternoon, which ended in a drug test.

I had never done any kind of substance at this point in my life except for a small sip of wine at church every Sunday.

I didn't even know WHY what I was asking about was so wrong, my parents were more informative after the fact at home, I just could not comprehend the stigma or stereotype.

Not only that, but none of my educational figures in my teenage years wanted to conversate with me about HOW drugs turned a "model citizen" into an addict.
Every example of drug addiction was taught using the message of how you'd end up like "This Person" if you ever used them.
Always a very real, but extreme example with no real comprehensive explanation other than "It's an addictive substance." No shit sherlock, but but but... didn't matter, don't ask just listen.


I ended up just kind of consciously letting it go until I was about 17 and began seeing therapists and psychiatrists to ask them these same questions, and ask them the most simple questions like "Why does weed feel so uplifting?" "Why does alcohol make me not give a fuck about your feelings?" "Why do my dad's pills make me not give a fuck about anything?"

Between 17 - 20 years old, I was collecting mental illness diagnoses like Pokemon.
Doctors would prescribe medications and I think my mistake was I would tell my doctors all these great things I felt while playing with different dosages, and they'd yank me off the medication or ween me off without actually paying attention to my own personal findings. No lecture about why adjusting doses unsupervised is dangerous, it just is and look at my degree you don't have.

I finally got fed up with my brain being toyed with and punished for being honest and just went to college at 20 and didn't look back, no longer expecting any kind of real help from a professional.

Now, in 2021, I've actually found a couple of different psychiatrists and therapists willing to have an adult conversation but I've yet to pick one that I can trust because I have a deep rooted fear that if I tell them the truth about how drugs they prescribe make me feel, they might take them away and I could be worse off than I am now. It's not fun having meds switched around.

I didn't mean to babble on for this long, but my point is I don't believe you've brainwashed yourself nor have you been brainwashed. Although I sometimes feel this way too.

Perhaps we've just kept to our own devices and made a few reversible mistakes along the way. I can't speak for you, but I know that anytime I've disclosed drug use/abuse to a doctor for the sake of bettering my understanding of my own mental health I get the usual referral to rehab and group therapy before I get a word in edge wise. (not knocking detox rehab)

Great idea doc, put me in a room with a bunch of other amateur neuroscientists and have us talk to each other about how drugs make us feel when practically none of us have any formal education about what the fuck we're even talking about. Confuse me further and make me feel stigmatized at the same time for seeking guidance you've dedicated your life to giving.

That's actually quiet similar to what I said to this psychiatrist I saw for the first time 2 weeks ago, and he ACTUALLY said I have a valid point and he is willing to work with me.

I empathize with how you feel @Zephyn .
On one hand I feel resentful and obstinate towards the way doctors, police and teachers have repeatedly and purposely withheld knowledge because they feel the knowledge can be abused.
On the other hand I look at what I've done with the knowledge I have gained and ask myself if having this knowledge has helped me at all.

Then I look down at my feet and realize that the only way forward is one foot in front of the other with or without knowledge and drugs.
 
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When I was in middle school, I asked my health teacher a question.

I asked "If we as humans weren't always looking forward to the next meal, looking forward to the next fun activity, looking forward to tomorrow, then what would we live for?"

I remember she paused and then said "Well, we'd basically have nothing to live for."

I was like 11 or 12 years old, and at the time we were in the middle of the D.A.R.E curriculum.

I asked "Aren't all these drugs something that people just look forward to? Aren't these drugs giving people a reason to live?"

I don't remember verbatim the rest of the debate that I purposely provoked after my health teacher didn't want to discuss or acknowledge that drug users were perhaps experiencing the human condition in an abnormal way, but not a criminal or immoral way. I distinctly remember calling her a criminal. I was a shithead, but I wanted answers and information.

This resulted in a trip to the school counselor, which resulted in a trip to the principal, which resulted in my parents coming to my school that afternoon, which ended in a drug test.

I had never done any kind of substance at this point in my life except for a small sip of wine at church every Sunday.

I didn't even know WHY what I was asking about was so wrong, my parents were more informative after the fact at home, I just could not comprehend the stigma or stereotype.

Not only that, but none of my educational figures in my teenage years wanted to conversate with me about HOW drugs turned a model citizen" into an addict.
Every example of drug addiction was taught using the message of how you'd end up like "This Person" if you ever used them.
Always a very real, but extreme example with no real comprehensive explanation other than "It's an addictive substance." No shit sherlock, but but but... didn't matter, don't ask just listen.


I ended up just kind of consciously letting it go until I was about 17 and began seeing therapists and psychiatrists to ask them these same questions, and ask them the most simple questions like "Why does weed feel so uplifting?" "Why does alcohol make me not give a fuck about your feelings?" "Why do my dad's pills make me not give a fuck about anything?"

Between 17 - 20 years old, I was collecting mental illness diagnoses like Pokemon.
Doctors would prescribe medications and I think my mistake was I would tell my doctors all these great things I felt while playing with different dosages, and they'd yank me off the medication or ween me off without actually paying attention to my own personal findings. No lecture about why adjusting doses unsupervised is dangerous, it just is and look at my degree you don't have.

I finally got fed up with my brain being toyed with and punished for being honest and just went to college at 20 and didn't look back, no longer expecting any kind of real help from a professional.

Now, in 2021, I've actually found a couple of different psychiatrists and therapists willing to have an adult conversation but I've yet to pick one that I can trust because I have a deep rooted fear that if I tell them the truth about how drugs they prescribe make me feel, they might take them away and I could be worse off than I am now. It's not fun having meds switched around.

I didn't mean to babble on for this long, but my point is I don't believe you've brainwashed yourself nor have you been brainwashed. Although I sometimes feel this way too.

Perhaps we've just kept to our own devices and made a few reversible mistakes along the way. I can't speak for you, but I know that anytime I've disclosed drug use/abuse to a doctor for the sake of bettering my understanding of my own mental health I get the usual referral to rehab and group therapy before I get a word in edge wise. (not knocking detox rehab)

Great idea doc, put me in a room with a bunch of other amateur neuroscientists and have us talk to each other about how drugs make us feel when practically none of us have any formal education about what the fuck we're even talking about. Confuse me further and make me feel stigmatized at the same time for seeking guidance you've dedicated your life to giving.

That's actually quiet similar to what I said to this psychiatrist I saw for the first time 2 weeks ago, and he ACTUALLY said I have a valid point and he is willing to work with me.

I empathize with how you feel @Zephyn .
On one hand I feel resentful and obstinate towards the way doctors, police and teachers have repeatedly and purposely withheld knowledge because they feel the knowledge can be abused.
On the other hand I look at what I've done with what knowledge I have gained and ask myself if having this knowledge has helped me at all.

Then I look down at my feet and realize that the only way forward is one foot in front of the other with or without knowledge and drugs.
Applause mate, fantastic post. I want to go point by point with you on it but would end up in a three hour meth hole. Soon though, we'll chop this shit up.
 
Also, I'm learning a lot from @ControlDaddy about how harnessing the power of having life philosophies in general makes everything slightly brighter.
He's good people and his advice logically checks out every time I seek it.
I'm kind of stalking his posts as a secret padawan, but don't tell him.
 
Also, I'm learning a lot from @ControlDaddy about how harnessing the power of having life philosophies in general makes everything slightly brighter.
He's good people and his advice logically checks out every time I seek it.
I'm kind of stalking his posts as a secret padawan, but don't tell him.
Oh good to know. I was just looking around for an improvised pistol, but those aren't shadow people, just secret padawan learners.
 
Have i been brainwashed or have I brainwashed myself? Or do I just have trauma now? Will I be like this forever? Or is this still withdrawal from love? Or from coming off antipsychotics? After 15 years of drug use, weed used to cut it for me as a daily thing. Id occasionally use benzos, amphetamines, cocaine or opiates over the past 10, but it was never a regular thing or felt necessary just used out of boredom. The past 3 years have been very hard after some really traumatic things happened and I tried some harder stuff like meth and IV heroin, on and off and in and out of rehab because I couldn't stop, never physically dependent though or using for any more than a few months. Well nowadays I can't get by a single day without usingsomething, I do go most days with just weed, but those days are miserable. And I find myself doing stuff like drinking alcohol even though I don't even like the effects, out of like some fucked up mechanism, like today I went out, resisted the temptation to buy beer at the store cuz I knew it would just upset my stomach and cause rebound anxiety, wound up caving in, the past couple hours I've been trying to fight the urge to drink it but I'm about to. I know tomorrow ill have even worse depression and anxiety. Is there anyway out of this cycle? I've stopped all the hard stuff for months now, yet I still feel miserable. Did 12 step brainwash me? Is that why I feel guilty over drinking some beer now? Or are they right and is total abstinence the only way to let me brain heal over time? Or will this get better if I stay off the crack meth and heroin for long enough? Could this be antipsychotjc withdrawal? Is this how people with trauma and addiction problems always feel and with the ptsd im just fucked now. Do i just need a good pcp high for an after glow? (Only partially joking about the pcp, but I mean like 3meo) The only missing piece is I used to use psychedelics recreational and I'm terrified to use them now after some traumatic trips. Should I bite the bullet and take some lsd? Microdosesm mushrooms? I've got 10mg of Xanax i could take but I'm saving those, so I've got some control, obviously.
I don’t mean to patronise and I know you have severe hppd issues and how that might be a significant deterrent, but regarding your depressive mindset, I wonder if controlled, disciplined, psychedellic microdosing could help, by just literally subtly, gradually, loosening all of those shackles, enabling new fresh construction, maybe even with your past deep dives and lasting consequences.

Just a thought. You would know. Gonna read the rest of your post now, very high on weed, kava, a tiny LSD 25 ug what a lovely dose. It’s there with sparkle but never even tries to take over. More like a beautiful orchestra in the background which your attention sways pleasantly too and from.

I know depression too. I am very severely depressed. Currently exacerbated by a crash basically, after exactly 10.15 mg’s pure Dutch acid in 40 days. A lot.


But even now, just 25 ug is beautiful. 50 ug is too intense for me now, especially 250 ug. I’ve appeared to experience a tolerance decrease honestly.

So hang in mate if you can. It’s a dark world at present. We just have to hold in there for now.
 
Have i been brainwashed or have I brainwashed myself? Or do I just have trauma now? Will I be like this forever? Or is this still withdrawal from love? Or from coming off antipsychotics? After 15 years of drug use, weed used to cut it for me as a daily thing. Id occasionally use benzos, amphetamines, cocaine or opiates over the past 10, but it was never a regular thing or felt necessary just used out of boredom. The past 3 years have been very hard after some really traumatic things happened and I tried some harder stuff like meth and IV heroin, on and off and in and out of rehab because I couldn't stop, never physically dependent though or using for any more than a few months. Well nowadays I can't get by a single day without usingsomething, I do go most days with just weed, but those days are miserable. And I find myself doing stuff like drinking alcohol even though I don't even like the effects, out of like some fucked up mechanism, like today I went out, resisted the temptation to buy beer at the store cuz I knew it would just upset my stomach and cause rebound anxiety, wound up caving in, the past couple hours I've been trying to fight the urge to drink it but I'm about to. I know tomorrow ill have even worse depression and anxiety. Is there anyway out of this cycle? I've stopped all the hard stuff for months now, yet I still feel miserable. Did 12 step brainwash me? Is that why I feel guilty over drinking some beer now? Or are they right and is total abstinence the only way to let me brain heal over time? Or will this get better if I stay off the crack meth and heroin for long enough? Could this be antipsychotjc withdrawal? Is this how people with trauma and addiction problems always feel and with the ptsd im just fucked now. Do i just need a good pcp high for an after glow? (Only partially joking about the pcp, but I mean like 3meo) The only missing piece is I used to use psychedelics recreational and I'm terrified to use them now after some traumatic trips. Should I bite the bullet and take some lsd? Microdosesm mushrooms? I've got 10mg of Xanax i could take but I'm saving those, so I've got some control, obviously.
Still reading. Sorry, very slow atm. I just drifted in bliss then snapped to.

Have you tried kava? Not cheapy capsules and avoid extracts- I mean, essentially properly prepared Noble kava from a high rated vendor, or simply Instant kava, good and ready to go.

In particular, kava is an axiolytic. It’s very calming and sociable like alcohol, but clear headed, no irritable, misunderstanding, getting in fights aspect lol.

But for me personally Kava works very well as an antidepressant.

It’s entirely non physically addictive too, unlike the more sinister Kratom, zero withdrawals from kava.
 
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