Opioids What is 'the nod'?

[tacodude]

Correcting falsely stated information is actually one of the few reasons reviving a dead thread is acceptable. Good job in catching that fear mongering! As yes, while the benzo opiod combo has severe risks of potentiating one another, where 1+2=4 in their case, so one must be extremely careful and should only combine these medications when tolerance has been developed with preferably guidance by a doctor or at least someone with experience mixing the two substances. Alcohol should also never be used as it will make 1+2=4+3=10

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Correcting falsely stated information is actually one of the few reasons reviving a dead thread is acceptable. Good job in catching that fear mongering! As yes, while the benzo opiod combo has severe risks of potentiating one another, where 1+2=4 in their case, so one must be extremely careful and should only combine these medications when tolerance has been developed with preferably guidance by a doctor or at least someone with experience mixing the two substances. Alcohol should also never be used as it will make 1+2=4+3=10

I would also extend that to include alcohol when your tolerance has reached a certain level. Its obscene just how many downers can be consumed when tolerant - but you're playing Russian roulette with your life with every dose...

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Correcting falsely stated information is actually one of the few reasons reviving a dead thread is acceptable. Good job in catching that fear mongering! As yes, while the benzo opiod combo has severe risks of potentiating one another, where 1+2=4 in their case, so one must be extremely careful and should only combine these medications when tolerance has been developed with preferably guidance by a doctor or at least someone with experience mixing the two substances. Alcohol should also never be used as it will make 1+2=4+3=10

Thanks. It was tempting, since the user called some one else out for 'false information' shortly after saying that. I'm glad saying something wasn't a bother. Alcohol is a dangerous substance all around and I bet it contributes to more deaths from combinations than it's given credit for. Opioids often get the blame in OD's when in reality, had the person not mixed them with alcohol and benzos, the opioid would have been relatively safe. This can then be weaponized to spread more fear mongering and make opioids appear more scary. I can understand the precautions when it comes to mixing opioids and benzos, it is good to be cautious, but there are scenarios where people with comorbid anxiety issues can really benefit from this safely and reasonably. This fear mongering is why it took almost 5 years to get my doctor to understand and trust me enough to finally let me utilize a benzo alongside my opioid therapy. That and the fact that my anxiety was taking my blood pressure up into stroke/heart attack territory.

Cheers tacodude.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I would also extend that to include alcohol when your tolerance has reached a certain level. Its obscene just how many downers can be consumed when tolerant - but you're playing Russian roulette with your life with every dose...

True. A very good friend of mine who was/is an alcoholic got into heroin after we became friends. Some how she managed to hold down an addiction to alcohol, klonopin, and heroin without ever once overdosing for 3 years. I've always wondered how the hell she did it. I'm glad she stopped though because I always had that worry in the back of my head that it would eventually happen to her and it probably would have. If you're going to use opioids, it's best to use them alone & when adding other depressants, it's best to assess tolerance and dosages before proceeding. As a person who grew out of even liking alcohol altogether, I say just skip that one whenever possible (as in, always)

 

[tacodude]

I stated alcohol at the end already....

 

[JoEhJoEh]

I am nodding on benzoes, too - that's such a great feeling, i love it!!! And with a glass of good wine .........Fucking good feeling. Anywhere between consiousness and and unconsiosness...

Youre eyes are either closed or just very small in that state, but normally you do not sleep. i also have very vivid dreams when this happens... great.

JJ

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Alcohol is a dangerous substance all around and I bet it contributes to more deaths from combinations than it's given credit for. Opioids often get the blame in OD's when in reality, had the person not mixed them with alcohol and benzos, the opioid would have been relatively safe. This can then be weaponized to spread more fear mongering and make opioids appear more scary.

Definitely.

You will notice that whenever opioid overdose records are reported, they are always listed as "deaths involving opioids" of which a huge portion are always actually ODs from a combination of opioids and other downers. This is then used to paint opioids as the sole problem.

Absolutely right too that alcohol is given a free pass so much of the time. And yet alcohol is the second most deadly drug in the world.

Obviously it should go without saying that opioids still carry plenty of risks on their own, but many, if not most, fatal overdoses are a result of combinations or fent cuts or some such.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Definitely.

You will notice that whenever opioid overdose records are reported, they are always listed as "deaths involving opioids" of which a huge portion are always actually ODs from a combination of opioids and other downers. This is then used to paint opioids as the sole problem.

Absolutely right too that alcohol is given a free pass so much of the time. And yet alcohol is the second most deadly drug in the world.

Obviously it should go without saying that opioids still carry plenty of risks on their own, but many, if not most, fatal overdoses are a result of combinations or fent cuts or some such.

I couldn't agree more. I've been an opioid addict for over 12 years now. About 4 or 5 of those years heroin was involved. I was fairly educated and the guy I got it from made to sure give me my dope straight, no cuts and I always did a tester bump. I did my research and it was clear to me why I have never once overdosed. I hated dirtying up my opioid highs with benzos and alcohol for one, my dealer was decent enough to give me my shit as clean as possible, so i'd know i'm not putting too many mystery chemicals into my body and I tried to be as safe and responsible as possible. This is when I realized and learned, that most opioid deaths aren't truly "opioid deaths" at all. The way they are portrayed in the media and by the government makes them look like the deadliest drugs on the planet and I think it's just propaganda. They absolutely do carry risks as all medicines though. But it's clear to me that if given a clean and safe source of heroin and with a little education, a person could truly use heroin/opioids long term (or even for life) in a safe way. I would even argue safer than most people who are addicted to alcohol.

I tried to like your reply Wilson Wilson, but I am a little new here and didn't see a button.

 

[nznity]

I couldn't agree more. I've been an opioid addict for over 12 years now. About 4 or 5 of those years heroin was involved. I was fairly educated and the guy I got it from made to sure give me my dope straight, no cuts and I always did a tester bump. I did my research and it was clear to me why I have never once overdosed. I hated dirtying up my opioid highs with benzos and alcohol for one, my dealer was decent enough to give me my shit as clean as possible, so i'd know i'm not putting too many mystery chemicals into my body and I tried to be as safe and responsible as possible. This is when I realized and learned, that most opioid deaths aren't truly "opioid deaths" at all. The way they are portrayed in the media and by the government makes them look like the deadliest drugs on the planet and I think it's just propaganda. They absolutely do carry risks as all medicines though. But it's clear to me that if given a clean and safe source of heroin and with a little education, a person could truly use heroin/opioids long term (or even for life) in a safe way. I would even argue safer than most people who are addicted to alcohol.

I tried to like your reply Wilson Wilson, but I am a little new here and didn't see a button.

Ppl rarely die from Heroin ods, they die from an overdose of a mix of downers.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

But it's clear to me that if given a clean and safe source of heroin and with a little education, a person could truly use heroin/opioids long term (or even for life) in a safe way. I would even argue safer than most people who are addicted to alcohol.

Indeed, this is the whole concept behind supervised injection rooms, which now exist in many countries across the world and are doing a great amount of good.

Alcohol is more physically harmful to the body than opioids, this is a clear fact, and additionally multiple large scale studies have shown alcohol is more dangerous than any illegal drug when the dangers to individuals and society are looked at.

You could in theory be given a controlled dose of clean pharma grade diamorphine daily and it wouldn't harm your health. Hospitals do this all the time in the UK, they use diamorphine as a painkiller when morphine isn't cutting it.

I do think the real problems from opiate addiction come from the psychological effects it has on you, especially as tolerance and withdrawal take their toll, because they are undoubtedly very addictive substances. And they numb your motivation in life as well, change your mindset, make you care more about getting high than anything else. That kind of stuff is why they fuck with ya.

 

[JessFR]

Ppl rarely die from Heroin ods, they die from an overdose of a mix of downers.

Agreed.

IME the most likely time for someone to actually die of a pure heroin OD is when their tolerance is quite low.

Once it gets much higher, it's just not gonna happen from heroin alone, or at least it's not very likely. You're just not likely to somehow take so much heroin as to kill you without realizing. It's much more likely to be something else has potentiated it.

Back when I was doing heroin I had no real concern of ODing. If there were fentanyl in heroin here then I might have, but fortunately there wasn't. And it just wasn't very likely that I would somehow wind up using so much heroin above what what I was already using.

There was one close call though. I forget the exact circumstances of how it happened. But somehow the guy I used to use with messed something up and somehow I wound up with a shot that had both my dose of heroin, plus his, plus a small amount of someone else's. So probably a bit over double a normal dose.

I didn't wind up in hospital or anything, but man I was really out of it. Kept nodding off and struggling to stay awake.

Honestly though I was hardly complaining when I was so high and they now had almost nothing.

It's probably way more dangerous in the US though. Here, at least when I was last using, heroin was still heroin.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

When you're drifting in and out of contentiousness and it looks like you're nodding your head.

 

[JessFR]

When you're drifting in and out of contentiousness and it looks like you're nodding your head.

Ehhh.. I'd describe it more as your head slooowwwly drooping till you just sit there asleep.

But nodding sounds better than drooping.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Back in the day I was drinking with some street kid and little did I know he had just had a shot. He started nodding out when we went back to my place to drink some beers and I thought he had od'ed or something.

 

[Shady's Fox]

Outerspace that was it means, when you can't move bcz you high af, you know. *snorts nose*

 

[Wilson Wilson]

To actually answer the OP, the best description comes from Drugstore Cowboy:

"Upon entering my vein, the drug would start a warm itch that would surge along until the brain consumed it in a gentle explosion. It began in the back of the neck and rose rapidly until I felt such pleasure that the whole world sympathized and took on a soft, lofty appeal. Everything was grand then. Your worst enemy -- he wasn't so bad. The ants in the grass -- they were just, you know, doin' their thing. Everything took on the rosy hue of unlimited success. You could do no wrong, and as long as it lasted, life was beautiful."

This sums up the opiate high perfectly imo.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

To actually answer the OP, the best description comes from Drugstore Cowboy:

"Upon entering my vein, the drug would start a warm itch that would surge along until the brain consumed it in a gentle explosion. It began in the back of the neck and rose rapidly until I felt such pleasure that the whole world sympathized and took on a soft, lofty appeal. Everything was grand then. Your worst enemy -- he wasn't so bad. The ants in the grass -- they were just, you know, doin' their thing. Everything took on the rosy hue of unlimited success. You could do no wrong, and as long as it lasted, life was beautiful."

This sums up the opiate high perfectly imo.

Nice job Wilson Wilson!! I was actually just using this movie for samples to make music with last night. No one can forget Mr. Burroughs either.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Ppl rarely die from Heroin ods, they die from an overdose of a mix of downers.

Absolutely. That was what I was trying to say. Heroin is not as dangerous as the media and common people have been lead to believe it is. The real issues of heroin addiction come from it's legality.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Indeed, this is the whole concept behind supervised injection rooms, which now exist in many countries across the world and are doing a great amount of good.

Alcohol is more physically harmful to the body than opioids, this is a clear fact, and additionally multiple large scale studies have shown alcohol is more dangerous than any illegal drug when the dangers to individuals and society are looked at.

You could in theory be given a controlled dose of clean pharma grade diamorphine daily and it wouldn't harm your health. Hospitals do this all the time in the UK, they use diamorphine as a painkiller when morphine isn't cutting it.

I do think the real problems from opiate addiction come from the psychological effects it has on you, especially as tolerance and withdrawal take their toll, because they are undoubtedly very addictive substances. And they numb your motivation in life as well, change your mindset, make you care more about getting high than anything else. That kind of stuff is why they fuck with ya.

I agree Wilson Wilson, although for me personally, in my experience, heroin/opioids have always motivated me. One of my favorite past times on heroin/opioids was cleaning. haha, no other drug in the world makes me wanna get up and clean and take care of my responsibilities. Not even stimulants. I am actually a more productive member of the world when I have opioids. This can't be said for everyone though however.

I think the biggest issue with heroin addiction is its legality. Having to score, going through wtihdrawals. If people could go pick up a bag of heroin like they can alcohol, then it wouldn't be such a big problem. I lost many jobs in the past because I was working hard while high, but then when my supply was gone, I'd get sick and could barely move.

I have seen that places like Switzerland offer diacetylmorphine to addicts as well. I think this is great. Although I can't say I agree with supervised injections. I never really got into the needle, always insufflated. So maybe for injections, I could see them needing to be supervised, but for the rest of us, supervised use takes away a lot of the fun and ritual of using heroin. Whenever I would do a bump, my favorite thing to do as I nodded was put my headphones on and listen to my favorite music, in the comfort of my own surroundings. Once that started to come down is normally when I would get up and clean or take care of things that require physical activity that I would normally be too unmotivated or in pain to do. But at least there are places out there looking at this whole situation differently, like Switzerland.

Anyway, this is way off topic to OP's original post, but I think a lot of people did a good job summing up the 'nod' here. The nod is basically when you can't keep your eyes open or your head up. It differs from a "tired nod", where as this type of nod is euphoric and actually feels good. Opioids also produce sedation and drowsiness, but I wouldn't say this is the same thing as the 'nod'.

It's good to see a lot of people on here who are well aware that heroin/opioids are less harmful than many legal and common drugs. I hope I live long enough to see drug reform when it comes to heroin. Heroin can truly be beautiful medicine for the soul, at least for me.

Thanks for all the discussions!

 

[Lanecore]

I agree Wilson Wilson, although for me personally, in my experience, heroin/opioids have always motivated me. One of my favorite past times on heroin/opioids was cleaning. haha, no other drug in the world makes me wanna get up and clean and take care of my responsibilities. Not even stimulants. I am actually a more productive member of the world when I have opioids. This can't be said for everyone though however.

I think the biggest issue with heroin addiction is its legality. Having to score, going through wtihdrawals. If people could go pick up a bag of heroin like they can alcohol, then it wouldn't be such a big problem. I lost many jobs in the past because I was working hard while high, but then when my supply was gone, I'd get sick and could barely move.

I have seen that places like Switzerland offer diacetylmorphine to addicts as well. I think this is great. Although I can't say I agree with supervised injections. I never really got into the needle, always insufflated. So maybe for injections, I could see them needing to be supervised, but for the rest of us, supervised use takes away a lot of the fun and ritual of using heroin. Whenever I would do a bump, my favorite thing to do as I nodded was put my headphones on and listen to my favorite music, in the comfort of my own surroundings. Once that started to come down is normally when I would get up and clean or take care of things that require physical activity that I would normally be too unmotivated or in pain to do. But at least there are places out there looking at this whole situation differently, like Switzerland.

Anyway, this is way off topic to OP's original post, but I think a lot of people did a good job summing up the 'nod' here. The nod is basically when you can't keep your eyes open or your head up. It differs from a "tired nod", where as this type of nod is euphoric and actually feels good. Opioids also produce sedation and drowsiness, but I wouldn't say this is the same thing as the 'nod'.

It's good to see a lot of people on here who are well aware that heroin/opioids are less harmful than many legal and common drugs. I hope I live long enough to see drug reform when it comes to heroin. Heroin can truly be beautiful medicine for the soul, at least for me.

Thanks for all the discussions!

Yes unfortunately going on the Nod is tough to come by now adays. I mean my tolerance got to the point where I would have to add a benzo in the mix to find that happy place. The Nod is where total peace and relaxation is reached and you are in purgatory, neither asleep nor awake, blissfully unaware. But alas, methadone maintenance is where I roam now. Really enjoyed your thoughts on this subject. A great discussion by all on the Nod