Recovery Recovery Journal

[jb99]

Starting one of these, for accountability and hope.

Today is day 3, after 2 weeks of heavy Alcohol and Suboxone abuse, and attempted Marijuana Maintenance, preceded by 8 months off and on relapse.

The Suboxone use went like:

0mg->12->16->16->16->8->7->6->5->4->4->16->24->24->0->0->0mg (today).

I feel ok at the moment, aside from some body aches. Taking only 100mg Seroquel (quietapine) for sleep, ibuprofen for soreness/aches, and 10mg Lexapro (escitalopram) antidepressant.

I'm surprised I don't feel worse from the Suboxone cold turkey. Knock on wood.

The night before last I had bad anxiety, persecution delusions, auditory hallucinations, insomnia, twitching, and paranoia, but last night I slept fine so thankfully those symptoms have subsided.

Normally for safety I'd detox in an inpatient, with taper meds. I've had 5 confirmed grand mal siezures from alcohol/benzo withdrawals, but I am risking this one cold turkey since it has been just 2 weeks continual use, and my insurance company is besides just about done paying for inpatient after the past 8 months.

PSA, I don't recommend kicking alcohol or benzo's without medical supervision.

 

[jb99]

Some backstory, and I'll prob edit this as my mind clears up.

I'm 36, first used bluelight 20 years ago when I was a young NYC clubgoer and MDMA+ketamine enthusiast. This was way pre-social-media. There were just a few forums us internet geeks used to socialize around the club/rave scene, mdma testing and harm reduction, etc.

I was a dumb kid having waaay too much fun, or so I thought. The next few years I let drugs totally derail my life. Friends I'd first partied with cut back and got on with their lives. By 18 I'd found crystal meth and fell for it hard, dropping out of an Ivy League undergrad and throwing away untold potential for happiness and success.

By 20 I'd resolved to stop hard drugs, but then I slowly became alcoholic, spending my 20's in a cycle of 6-9 months sober, then a few months bingeing on mostly alcohol, back to abstinence, wash rinse repeat.

By this point I was mostly happy to drink/use alone in my apartment- it was no longer primarily a social thing. The party was over.

Fast forward a few years. I met my ex-wife in NYC when I was 30. We hit it off and were infatuated. We discussed engagement, she became pregnant even tho on birth control, and we decided to start a family. We moved to Oregon, found a nice apartment for a fraction of what it'd cost back in New York. I turned my life around 180°, went back to school for computer science, supported us as best I could, and never thought I'd relapse again.

I Iove my daughter to death and was a fine parent at first, but after a few years I had a
lapse, one of those moments of insanity, and fucked up again. My ex and child moved in with my mother, thank God for her, and I was out for 5 months, nearly died, got down to 115lbs from an infection plus the drinking and depression. I hated myself for having failed my daughter.

I came back and was sober for a year, reconnected with my daughter and did some dabbling with crypto.

I relapsed 8 months ago, it's been hellish, spent most of my $ and sold possessions, lived in hotels and then eventually in shelters. It's been a nightmare, but finally I have a few days sober outside of an inpatient facility, so I think the ship is turning back on course.

I don't 'love' 12-step concepts, but I've been going to meetings again. I have a small income so am able to send a bit of $ to my ex as child support. I'm supposed to visit with my daughter this weekend, have seen her and talked to her only sporadically the past 8 months. Can't wait! She is my higher power for all intents and purposes.

So that's my life in a nutshell. I'm fortunate to be still breathing and have another shot. I'll post updates now and then, not so much as to spam the board but just to check in and, I hope, share a story of success and recovery. Cheers on day 3.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

Am I reading this right, that you're jumping off at 24 mg!?! That's insane! You probably haven't had time to experience the withdrawal yet because of sub's insane half life (if you jumped off at 24mg you will still have 6mg in your system today, which is why you aren't very sick), but you are making this SO much harder for yourself than it needs to be! Your dosing schedule baffles me. The only explanation I can imagine is that your sub supply is very limited or sporadic, since tapering down to 4mg then ramping back up to 24mg to jump off just doesn't make any sense. There's a bunch of hellish stories of buprenorphine withdrawal online and 95% of them could have been prevented if they tapered off correctly. Even jumping at 8mg is really excessive and asking for a bad time, but jumping off at 24mg if you have any kind of physical dependency is just crazy. You didn't give much backstory about your opioid use, so perhaps you have only been taking subs for a couple weeks and weren't on opiates before then, so maybe you're lucky and aren't physically dependent on the subs yet, but if you are you are going to suffer way more than necessary if you continue your cessation. I've tapered off subs and got totally clean a couple of times, and each time I tapered down to 0.2 mg and only experienced a couple of days of mild discomfort and that was it. I highly recommend you reconsider your approach!

 

[jb99]

perhaps you have only been taking subs for a couple weeks and weren't on opiates before then, so maybe you're lucky and aren't physically dependent on the subs yet

This. I wasn't physically dependent on opioids when I got on the subs. When detoxing from alcohol, I'd usually try to get some opioid in my system because being on a methadone or sub taper along with Librium helps make the alcohol withdrawal a bit gentler. This time I was dumb tho and when the doc asked if I wanted maintenance I said sure. I mixed up naloxone and naltrexone and my befogged mind thought the Suboxone maintenance would also reduce alcohol cravings and reduce pleasurable effects of alcohol. I wasn't really thinking beyond the day tbh.

As for why my taper failed, see this thread :/

I was trying to taper, got down to 4, then my drinking spiraled back up and so did the Sub use. It's almost a comical quantitative example of my own inability to moderate.

I realize I may still have a little bupe in my system, but it's been 81 hours since my last dose, so receptor coverage should be significantly reduced.

Edit according to this half life calculator, it will be another 4 days or so before my blood stream drops to effectively zero.

And don't get me wrong I am having symptoms- sweats, trembling hands, some anxiety. It's just that it's tolerable, it's not driving me to drink or use, so I think I will get through it. And if it worsens significantly I'll go back to the doctor. Thanks for your concern!

 

[OpiumKing]

Good Luck jb ..!! Yes, go see your Doc if need be. I come from a similar background ..so I pray you can get it together NOW, and not in your late 40s like me.! Think of what you can be for yourself and your family with that extra decade you have over me.?? Wish I could get back just one of my many wasted decades.!
Cheers M8

 

[jb99]

Good Luck jb ..!!

Thanks. Yes reading more about buprenorphine and half lives of various substances, and I now realize that playing with long acting opioids or benzos is really playing with fire. I'd been through this before with methadone and it was a total nightmare, but I was on methadone for 3 months before I tapered off.

This time I can only hope that the fact that I was on Bupe for only 12 days will save me from worse suffering. Looks like that 36 hour figure is just a median anyway, and the range is actually 20-70 hours, so it could take between 5 and 16 days to reach negligible blood concentration levels, depending on individual.

I wish I had a couple decades back myself, I feel you on that. Especially with a family, and children who love us in the picture, getting and staying clean and recovering is just so critical.

Do you have any threads where you've posted about your own history?

Take care and enjoy your day, it's beautiful where I am.

 

[jb99]

Day 5 here after cold turkey from alcohol, cannabis, and 12 days of Suboxone, and 8 months without much sobriety outside of inpatient stays.

I believe I'm already over the detox hump!

I feel quite better than I thought I would. Hands still have some tremors, but the opiate withdrawal symptoms are lessening and quite minor.

With 100mg Seroquel (quietapine) I've slept a full 8-9 hours last night and the night before.

Restless leg twitching is reducing each day. Still having some sweats but that also seems to be reducing.

Muscle aches pains and cramps have ebbed and flowed from quite annoying to absent, and have been controllable with ibuprofen.

My mood is improving. On 10mg Lexapro (escitalopram) and 2 or 3 cups of tea or coffee, which I find to have antidepressant qualities.

I'm not feeling very anxious.

Going to 1 or 2 recovery meetings per day. Even though I am mostly secular humanist, I still like the people in the meetings and believe the 'take what you need, leave the rest' approach to 12 step is useful.

Last night I went to an "Agnostic Crystal Meth Anonymous" meeting in hells kitchen Manhattan, how's that for specific, lol.

I'm going to see my daughter and my mother tomorrow and can't wait. Also have plans to spend time with my ex and my daughter together next week.

Thanks BL Health and Recovery peeps!

-JB

 

[jb99]

Day 6, went on a 2hr train ride to visit my mom and my 4.5 y/o daughter for the first time in way too long.

It was such a joyous reunion! Words can't even express. It just filled my whole being with happiness that has been so excruciatingly absent this year.

I should be able to see her at least 2 days a week and hopefully soon move closer so we can go back to my ex having her half time and I have her the other half.

Suboxone withdrawal symptoms are just about zero, but I'm still getting a bit of leg twitching after I shower and lay down for the night.

Cheers, -JB

 

[losangeles1993]

Wow dude so sorry about your loss..drugs and alcohol can be such a bitch ...I'm 26 and have a 3 year and currently live my son's mom my girlfriend and I relapsed 4 months ago on Heroin ..I got about 6 grand last month and in down to $2400 ..I have plenty of Suboxone about 48 of the 8Mg strips and I get about 30 a month ..I'm scared of withdrawal because I've been on and off again Heroin for the past 4 years and never have my withdrawals been this bad ..I'm guessing because I'm using $150 a day to $100 a day...so hopefully tomorrow im going to take my sub the H doesn't even get me high anymore...and why would you jump off the subs at 24 MGs that's crazy dude ...and keep us updated plz

 

[jb99]

Day 8 complete. My story... whew, I'll get into the details at some point, but I've been thru some shit, as most of us have.

In my current living environment there is a fair amt of people who use. Luckily it's NYC so with a subway pass I can be anywhere I want.

Heard an old friend give his CMA qualification (story) yesterday, he is sober 16 yrs and has an absurdly high powered job. When we were close, he was using and a wreck, it's incredible how people can turn their lives around.

Wow dude so sorry about your loss

Thx well I've lost some time, and some things and $, and perhaps one possible future path, but there is the saying, when one door closes another opens. I'm 36, I'm not giving up. We all have our own journey. My daughter is happy and healthy (I hope your child is too), luckily my parents are in the picture and my ex tho she has some issues is not an addict.

and why would you jump off the subs at 24 MGs that's crazy dude ...and keep us updated plz

Fortunately I wasn't on it so long that I had bad withdrawals. I slept, so I got thru it.

Now, tho, reality is starting to settle in, life on life's terms as they say, and that's the real test.

One day at a time...

 

[losangeles1993]

Day 8 complete. My story... whew, I'll get into the details at some point, but I've been thru some shit, as most of us have.

In my current living environment there is a fair amt of people who use. Luckily it's NYC so with a subway pass I can be anywhere I want.

Heard an old friend give his CMA qualification (story) yesterday, he is sober 16 yrs and has an absurdly high powered job. When we were close, he was using and a wreck, it's incredible how people can turn their lives around.

Thx well I've lost some time, and some things and $, and perhaps one possible future path, but there is the saying, when one door closes another opens. I'm 36, I'm not giving up. We all have our own journey. My daughter is happy and healthy (I hope your child is too), luckily my parents are in the picture and my ex tho she has some issues is not an addict.


Fortunately I wasn't on it so long that I had bad withdrawals. I slept, so I got thru it.

Now, tho, reality is starting to settle in, life on life's terms as they say, and that's the real test.

One day at a time...

Seems to me you know what to do ..you just weren't doing it or didn't want to do it ...living life on life's terms is a bitch I'll tell you that but it's worth it ...so many things happened to me while living life on life's terms..I lost my job,got dumped,lost my motorcycle etc a lot of loses but I had to stay sober ...is there meetings everyday in NYC? When I'm clean I usually hit a meeting everyday..I can't wait until I'm clean again.. usually when I'm clean everything falls into place for me overtime..and my son is beautiful and in great health Thank you..and never knew NYC was still ravaged with drugs..i thought they cleaned up seeing how expensive it is to live their ...take care

 

[jb99]

Day 10 complete. I'm just glad I survived long enough to finish Stranger Things Season 3 tonight, I love that show...

And, more importantly, planning to go up to see my daughter again Friday.

...is there meetings everyday in NYC?

Yup there are over 1,000 AA meetings per week in New York, and NA, CA, CMA, SMART Recovery, etc. I don't usu go every day, except in the beginning, like now. The good thing abt having so many meetings is you can be selective and shop around and find groups where you are comfortable.

never knew NYC was still ravaged with drugs

I wouldn't say it is ravaged, there is less crime here than most major cities, it's not like the 1980's and early 90's. But you can still find anything here 24/7, constructive or destructive.

I've lived in a few different states, but I grew up here and it's home. Yes it is too f-ing expensive but same with San Francisco, London, Tokyo, Paris, etc.

At least in most of these big metro's one doesn't need a car though, that helps mitigate the cost a bit.

 

[Jabberwocky]

sounds like you're doing good jb, well done. i hope you enjoy seeing your daughter tomorrow, must make the pain worth it.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

the range is actually 20-70 hours

I have seen Suboxone negatively effect someone for several days in a row; I can verify that the 70-hour duration does exist for at least some people.

you can still find anything here 24/7, constructive or destructive.

So glad I'm not living in NYC it sounds impossible for someone like me. God bless you and best of luck.

 

[jb99]

i hope you enjoy seeing your daughter tomorrow, must make the pain worth it.

Saw my 4.5 y/o daughter again today, it was such a blast. We drove to Whole Foods, cooked dinner, etc. She is a trip. It's like finding water in the desert, reuniting with one's young child after an absence.

So glad I'm not living in NYC it sounds impossible for someone like me. God bless you and best of luck.

I had a rough year so far. I was pretty beaten because I earnestly wanted to stop but kept getting overwhelmed and fucking up. Doing ok now but it's a lifelong battle, and as I mentioned, there are a lot of supportive and cool people here too.

I'm doing 12 step here bec there's strength in numbers. And it can be fun. We were all laughing so hard at a mtg yesterday... I stay away from the 'fundamentalist/conservative,' big-book-is-bible meetings, that's just not my style. I will probably get a sponsor but I'm picky, I don't want to waste my time with someone who is an asshole or holier-than-thou or is going to give me orders. F that. I may have a problem but I'm an adult, too.

Also, fwiw, stopped the Seroquel for sleep, now I'm taking just 100mg Trazodone at night, more benign than a neuroleptic.

 

[jb99]

Today completes day 13.

Went to a SMART recovery (non-12-step, secular, rational, CBT-based recovery) meeting in Manhattan. The 4th Sat of the month they have a "social/games" meeting, it was so much fun. We just chatted, then did pictionary and then improv games which was hilarious, I laughed until I hurt.

One of the women had taken improv classes so she had all these funny exercises and scenarios, I was nervous/skeptical at first but I got some good laughs

I definitely recommend SMART if they have any in-person meetings in your area.

I will probably gravitate towards the agnostic/secular/humanist 12 step meetings and SMART. It's just more my style, and in NYC at least we have the luxury of options.

The 'God Debate' is distracting to me. My goal is to stay sober, live a better life, and make friends and acquaintances, not to become a theologian or be proselytized to, or force myself to pretend to have faith. That's self-deceit, I've tried it before and it just caused cognitive dissonance.

Also went to a regular NA meeting in the SoHo neighborhood, ran into a girl I was in rehab with a couple months ago, which was nice.

The first two people shared abt prayer bec that's what the reading was about, then the 3rd guy who had 30 years clean said "Well, I'm an Atheist"

Cheers all, hope you're having a good weekend.

 

[jb99]

2 weeks sober today. Met my 15 years sober friend I've known since 2001 today, that was nice. Went to a SMART recovery social gathering, in a park in Manhattan, was fun, good conversation. Then a CMA meeting. Had some nice text conversations with other sober people, some who do 12 step and some who don't.

And this is funny, I found my original bluelight handle, I signed up Nov 30, 1999!!

Read some of my old posts, oh lord I was 16-17 and such a dorky little club kid. Thought I was pretty grown up and cool though. Wish I could go back there and talk some sense into myself

 

[jb99]

3 weeks sober tomorrow. It's been a good week. Got a lot accomplished. Was with my daughter Wed, Fri, today Sat, and tmrw Sunday. I'm at my mom's in the suburbs, about to go to sleep in the guest bedroom, with my 4 y/o asleep on the other side of the bed. I can't have her over where I'm at in the city yet, but I should have my own place by end of year. Planning on returning to school to finish my BS in CS this Jan, I have 2 yrs left.

Yesterday I took the kid to the Metropolitan Museum of art, then playground in Central Park, was a lot of work but fun. There is this amazing costume exhibit called Camp.

I'm exhausted. Hope u all are managing. Cheers.

 

[jb99]

4 weeks clean today.

Life is so much better already. I'm glad I didn't have to go to rehab or detox this time, I've got so much done and because I've been able to eat healthy non-institutional food, and take my vitamins and supplements (I *think* they help), I feel sooo much better than I usu do at 4 weeks clean. Lord, rehabs need to do better on the nutrition front.

Anyway, I'm doing more SMART recovery meetings and fewer 12 step.

I did go an to agnostic/secular AA meeting today bec I had nothing to do (a free Sunday w/o my kid), and there wasn't a SMART meeting close by, but in general, I'm not planning on getting an AA sponsor or doing the steps. I am in recovery to change my behavior and be a 'decent' person and live my life, and reason / secular humanism or whatever you want to call it is important to me. I'm not trying to find religion or spirituality or a higher power, I have plenty of meaning and joy in my life without magic.

But cheers to you if that's what works for ya.

 

[Jabberwocky]

well done jb, you're doing super good.

i don't think it matters which group you attend, for me keeping busy and the social support is the most important. i find some of the god references in NA a bit hard sometimes, and the UK is in generally less god-bothery than the US, so I can imagine it being worse there. i'm an atheist and it is a bit difficult to understand some of the things people say about a higher power without a theistic sense of one. you're right that behaviour change is more important, the number of people i've heard looking back on relapses and saying with hindsight they could see their behaviours going back to their old addicted ones long before they picked up.