What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[G_Chem]

Most of the MDMA I buy looks like the pic above, anything less than that and it won't go in my body no matter how much people wanna tell me "oh brown MDMA is pure too!!" It needs to have decent clarity and little to no coloration.

And nice anon let us know how that goes

I will say I've never had comeups that fast even on pills that other people say gets them rolling in 15mins (og chi mints, rip) so I'd say that is subjective. Every experience I've ever had (and trust me when I say my rolls are still prime) takes 45min. So each person is definitely different in this regard, although based on what you were saying indigo sounds like you never really peak on the longer come up product either which is definitely problematic..

Since everyone is describing their rolls and duration I might as well too.. A good roll for me goes like this. As soon as I dose the pill/capsule I get this underlying feeling like "ooo this is gonna be good" despite not really feeling anything yet. Around 45mins in I'll get slammed and go from near sober to full on rolling usually within 15min, sometimes I need to sit down during this as it can get overwhelming but nothing a back rub from a good looking woman can't solve. Soon as this comeup phase passes I'm feeling like a million dollars.

I'm stimulated but not in the classic sense, moreso I'm nowhere near tired, extremely talkative, oozing with empathy, yet relaxed simultaneously. I go from a shy introvert to wanting to talk and help everyone around me, I tend to mother hen everyone and honestly knowing someone is ok is more important than having fun/partying while rolling. I once spent an entire roll watching over someone who took too much acid (comeup to comedown 5hrs later) even though I could have just left him to fight it himself. (Guy still thanks me for it and gave me a hella cheap yet dope sleeve/tattoo.)

There is no monginess, I can dance all night or sit and chat but if I sit my leg is definitely tapping even though I'm not feeling too stimmed. Duration is about 4-6hours from initial dosing, booster brings it to 5-7.

It is typically a quick drop off, one minute your rolling the next you aren't. But this can vary based on batch, good batches can still last a long time and be drawn out. Either way more often than not the comedown is not filled with any negative feelings and usually there is this little bit of rollyness that remains (probably R isomer) which I can harness to keep the party going even after I'm technically down.

Next day is usually an awesome day as I bask in the glory of the day/night before. I almost always get afterglows but I also consume a lot of psychedelics and think that may be a huge factor in that. I also consume antioxidants during which helps give afterglows as well.

Oh yea and sex is definitely possible but I think that also comes down person to person. Sex is amazing but more often than not I've got other things on my mind. I actually prefer sitting in a hot bathtub while rolling (may not be safe mind you hyperthermia and all) and just groping each other casually while talking lol. The touch will make you melt alone, orgasm isn't even needed.

So yea that's kinda a small run down of what I think of with amazing MDMA.

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

I will say I've never had come-ups that fast even on pills that other people say gets them rolling in 15mins (og chi mints, rip) so I'd say that is subjective. Every experience I've ever had (and trust me when I say my rolls are still prime) takes 45min. So each person is definitely different in this regard, although based on what you were saying indigo sounds like you never really peak on the longer come up product either which is definitely problematic..

Makes sense that it would be subjective based on each person's system. But, does it seem likely to you that my experience would have changed so dramatically?

If the come-up took 45 minutes, but I still peaked, it would be fine. But, really you are right, it never hits the same high that it used to.

I'll get slammed and go from near sober to full on rolling usually within 15min, sometimes I need to sit down during this as it can get overwhelming

This is what it used to be like for me. The come-up was intense. I was usually the person who vomited at some point during the come-up because it was so intense. I absolutely had to sit down. Now, its like, "Meh, don't feel much" until I finally re-dose about 2 hours later.

My significant other has the exact same observations/experience that I have.

 

[mrbenn]

I've now linked some specs to the other thread. I am beginning to finally compile evidence that perhaps the old school mdma was a hydrated polymorph, and MDMA of today is anhydrous. Raman spec from the early days (1989, 2000, 2003 so far) shows hydrated polymorphism as common and not many anhydrous samples, more recent spec from 2014 shows anhydrous. Although more needs to be seen, I need to find more research on ecstasy seized recently and analyzed before conclusions can be made.

What we know without a doubt.. MDMA can and does vary with at least two other hydrated polymorphs which can be made via different crystallization conditions. How these polymorphs effect the overall experience we as of yet do not know but we can extrapolate from the pharmaceutical industry research that they do indeed have pharmacological differences.

-GC

That's a great post GC. I know for a fact there's certainly something different going on through the chemical processing of the "magic" MDMA that noone has quite put their finger on yet. I can't be wrong as I've spent more than quarter of a century using MDMA and I'm no stranger to it. I'm in the '90 per cent sure's' when when Methylone is present or other "close to's" . I don't have the wisdom of some of you chemistry guys on here who at the very least know their basic chemisty and the vocabulary that comes with it. All I can give you is the effects of my experience over the many years I've been a user.

 

[mrbenn]

I wrote other posts on this subject but seemingly they've evaporated into somewhere "saved"..

 

[Tec]

You should not give up. We are coming up with new hard evidence that you were right all along. See
"Unlike" ?
Alas, my 4 test subjects were also Virgin users with no history of MDxx use, nor cocaine, nor any anti-depressants. Not even cannabis. ...only ethanol history.
No Mydriasis on all 4 cases - this cannot be ignored !

Sorry, I didn't intend to say anything negative about your findings. I was simply adding to them with a different group of 'subjects'

I have friends who have had exposure to 'good' quality MDMA, but only on a few occasions (so it can be argued that they have no noticable tolerance issues). Their experiences are the same as mine, extremely noticeable drop-off when re-visiting the drug in recent years. It's a night and day difference.

Subjective experience and findings shouldn't be ignored, but you're right it's harder to convince people. I think this 'middle' group of subjects are very useful, especially when talking about the drug subjectively.

New Users - have no experience.
Experienced Users - possible tolerance issues, deemed unreliable
Infrequent Users who tried MDMA prior to 2009 (or from 2010-13) - no tolerance issues, experience with MDMA before and now.

I added the dates because we had a massive MDMA drought in 2009-10, I noticed MDMA quality started to drop massively in 2012-13.

Keep up the good work people, though I'm not sure what will come of it!

 

[G_Chem]

Thank you MrBenn, although I'll say I'm still skeptical of the polymorphism theory for the reason certain batches just ain't right. It definitely has an overall effect on the batch but if they are negative or not yet we aren't really sure. The Dutch mong IMO is likely impurities, polymorphism or a mix of the two. Ive concluded since that post that anhydrous MDMA is good too, but we could be looking at another polymorph as there is more than a few.

Indigo, I think not.. I believe your experience definitely is coming down to change in supplier/batch. I'm sorry if you've answered this above but do you ever come across product that is different and reminds you of the old days?

And to Tec, I would maybe consider myself part of your third category. I first tried in 2005 and used it I think 11-12 times between 2005 and 2010 (never close together but some years a lil more than others.) From 2012 on I started using 5-8 times a year, more often 5-6. I always consume lots of antioxidants and follow every roll rule in the book. (Never more than 200mg in a night counting it's good, stay cool, hydrate but also replace electrolytes, infrequency, etc.). I've felt the pre drought and post drought and I still come across lovely product.

With all that said I'm in a different part of the world than a lot of you guys. Dutch product here is imported through many hands and usually is insanely expensive. I do know people who've tried dutchies and I've watched people take them. I've "interviewed" these people, one of them being my brother, and the effects are different for sure. I watched someone take a supposed 150+mg press and they told me they weren't rolling! And had no pupil dilation (tested on 4 reagents, looked good.) Everyone I asked said they typically have a shorter duration, and a floor you kind of feeling where you just wanna lie down and soak it in.

Im grateful to live where I do, but I worry the Dutch will eventually control the market unless something changes...

Which winds me down to your final statement Tec, what exactly will come of this once we find the culprit?

I suppose making it headline news everywhere in the drug world would be a good start so then the manufacturers might get the message to try harder for precursors that seem to create a product the majority enjoy. We could also potentially create a purification Tek assuming impurity, and/or recrystallization Tek assuming polymorphs, if either of those are truly the problem.

It is awesome to finally start to see people coming together trying to find the real reason, and no more of this bs MDMA is MDMA talk. These are clandestinely and illicitly produced products, not all of it is getting the quality control it deserves.

I'm curious is there any people in the US that feel most of the product has changed or is it just those in the U.K./Europe?

-GC

 

[indigoaura]

I'm sorry if you've answered this above but do you ever come across product that is different and reminds you of the old days?

I am not a "connected" person, unfortunately. I have basically only dealt with two suppliers, the 2000-2005 supplier and the post 2005 supplier.

That said, there was a brief period where an acquaintance had access to some other stuff. It was a brown crystal. It had that old saffrole smell. This stuff was closer to the old stuff. I don't know that I ever really had the chance to try it at the right dose to compare to my pre-2005 supply.

So...

Based on everything I am reading it sounds like in order to identify what is going on you would need to have a sample that produced the desired effect and a sample that did not produce the desired effect. Then, you would need to test for the polymorphs, impurities, and isomers to determine which issue is occurring. Is that an accurate analysis?

 

[JG0007]

I am no scientist and maybe a little late to the thread but could it be that much of the old school pills had MDA or part MDA in them?
Where as MDA in pill form is very rare these days.

 

[indigoaura]

I am no scientist and maybe a little late to the thread but could it be that much of the old school pills had MDA or part MDA in them?
Where as MDA in pill form is very rare these days.

I don't think so, at least not in my case. I sent many pills in to a lab, and they were tested as MDMA only, not MDA.

 

[JG0007]

I don't think so, at least not in my case. I sent many pills in to a lab, and they were tested as MDMA only, not MDA.

I meant the older pills - 90s containing MDA. Not todays.

 

[Le Junk]

I meant the older pills - 90s containing MDA. Not todays.

Nope. Ive been sending pills and powders into ecstasydata since the 90s and the answer to that question is no. They were always just MDMA only.

 

[Le Junk]

G Chem has described an old-school MDMA experience 99% correctly. The only exception being that the legal MDMA pills I was getting in the 1980s plus the same bleach white/snow like consistency MDMA powder Ive been getting ever since the 1990s always hits everyone in 15 minutes. Regardless, the kind of MDMA experience he has described is unattainable today. Todays MDMA is just a fucked up carnival like sideshow buzz. A mere shell of its former self.

 

[Le Junk]

Here is a quick tell tell sign that you are doing modern day MDMA crap. Your pupils will only dilate to between 1/2 to 3/4 full. With old-school MDMA, your pupils would dilate all the way to the edge only leaving a microscopic sliver left of your eye color. End of story.

 

[indigoaura]

I meant the older pills - 90s containing MDA. Not todays.

No, because the pills I had in the early 2000s produced the same effect described by LeJunk, GChem and others. The 15 minute come-up, euphoria, love, touchy feely good stuff. I sent THOSE pills to ecstasydata. They were always MDMA. I also sent the less desirable stuff in for testing, and it also tested as MDMA so something is up.

 

[indigoaura]

Regardless, the kind of MDMA experience he has described is unattainable today.

Based on the comments, it seems that some people can still find this product, just not most people.

Here's a question...could someone reach out to ecstasydata with these ideas and see if they can adjust their testing parameters to try to determine some of this stuff?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

...I doubt they would develop a custom test(s) without charging thousands.

I think the best route is to have someone volunteer to do this testing that happens to work in an academic lab and has a personal interest in the topic.

 

[Le Junk]

...I doubt they would develop a custom test(s) without charging thousands.

I think the best route is to have someone volunteer to do this testing that happens to work in an academic lab and has a personal interest in the topic.

This is true. I already contacted ecstasydata to see if they could do extended testing and the answer was no. They are not set up for that. That would be nice if somebody, with the tools to do so, could perform the testing on their own. I guess time will tell.

In the meantime the only testing available is by ingestion combined with an awful experience. Like I said, the signs to look for are a lack of full pupil dilation, extremely high milligrams on the pills and a mediocre at best experience. Unfortunately, I dont see this changing anytime soon. Very sad.

 

[trogere]

I had some great experiences with MDMA around 2005-06. I took a break, and tried XTC again in 2010. A strong dose, it was fun, but it was not energetic as in the past, and I had the constant feeling that all the empathy of the folks with me was fake.

 

[Le Junk]

I had some great experiences with MDMA around 2005-06. I took a break, and tried XTC again in 2010. A strong dose, it was fun, but it was not energetic as in the past, and I had the constant feeling that all the empathy of the folks with me was fake.

Lol, yep. Pretending to feel like you are supposed to feel. Good times.

 

[Glubrahnum]

The different salts and whether a mixture is racemic can only be seen with a proton NMR test.

This is just not true.
Many other analytic methods can indicate the enantiomer ratio and salts.
For example the Raman spectroscopy or even plain IR spectroscopy can resolve them when a polarized light is used.

The different salts and whether a mixture is racemic can only be seen with a proton NMR test.
I'd love to be able to find out why some batches are just crap even though they are tested by GC/MS to be MDMA.

This is easy to answer - see this thread.