What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[Glubrahnum]

Guys,

Recently, I observed the effects of various oral doses of brownish "Dutch MDMA Crystals" in 4 different VIRGIN subjects (30 - 60 year old) in a house-party social setting.

By "VIRGIN", I mean people that have never used MDMA before in their life nor any amphetamines, cocaine nor any anti-depressants nor RC.
The crystalline powder was determined to contain MDxx by an immunoassay testkit, after 10^-6 mass dilution in distilled water.
The immunoassay testkit is highly specific to MDMA, MDA and MDEA but it does not allow the differentiation between these 3 compounds.

The 4 oral doses were 100mg, 100mg, 130mg and 150mg.
The onset of effects happened within 30min of ingestion and was characterized by visible sleepiness, in all four cases.
15min into the onset, the sleepiness suddenly receded and remaining effects lasted for 3-4h.
No PUPIL DILATION ( mydriasis ) was observed for 4 hours in any of the subjects !!!
A slight lockjaw ( trismus ) was observed IN ONLY ONE subject (a 38y, 85kg male and the 150mg dose).

SUBJECTIVE EFFECTS after the onset:
Feeling of general well being in all subjects
Analgesia of chronic back pain in one subject.
Report of sobering up, in one subject who was drinking ethanol for two hours before ingesting the "Dutch MDMA crystals".
Reports of euphoria and feeling of having energy ...but all subjects were sitting on a couch for 4h.
Lucid but introverted ( "mongy" ) behavior in all subjects.
Reports of hot/cold flashes and transient sweatiness of extremities slightly after the onset.
No outward talkativeness in all subjects.
No unusual empathy towards others visible from outside in all subjects.
Report of increased tactile sensations from one subject.
Reports of changed visual acuity in two subjects.

Is the above familiar to anyone here?
Any feedback is welcomed...

 

[Biscuit]

^ Awesome, awesome work and post. Too right this is familiar from my observations. This nonsense about all us nostalgic "old timers" being unfairly critical of the present day situation in the face of "irreparable tolerance" is absolute crap. Of course this might well be a factor in a specific situation relevant to one individual but it is not what is plainly happening across the board on a regular basis.

What Glubrahnum has described for "dutch MDMA crystal" is precisely what I have experienced and seen in others, including those completely new to the game. Earlier in this thread or in a different one, I spoke about how me, my friends and other "ravers" appeared in our old raver photoraphs from 1999 to 2006 (following on from which were a number of predictable and derisive replies). The expressions on most of our faces is nothing short of priceless - massive pupils and a ridiculous looking grin from ear to ear that is made effortlessly due to the loved up state which the entire party is in. My memories of many of these nights are crystal clear - they were life changing experiences which demanded one get up, move and communicate with other people on a level which is rarely achievable without such enhancement; and when you weren't otherwise dancing and communicating, you were generally moaning in ecstasy from one of the many massages you might receive, often from complete strangers.

I see none of this now when we are talking about the "suspect" crystals or mongy mega dosed pills - people are introverted, lacking in energy and not at all loved up; the pupil dilation is entirely underwhelming and their memories of the spacey, whacked out couple of hours they have just drifted aimlessly through, is in comparative terms far poorer.

Now, there is no question that these effects are not the case for every pill or every quantity of powder, far from it. But for many, this is the new norm and it is not at all reflective of the reasons for why MDMA was referred to as "ecstasy" or the "love drug" in the first place.

 

[BlueBull]

^^^To this post and many others please actually read the thread before posting. If you had you'd realize we are far beyond the "get a test kit" argument.

Also I apologize for taking so long to post my theories in another thread but it'll finally be soon now that I have internet access, almost have it complete on word..

-GC

Looking forward to it

 

[alienfella]

Purple mdma

Ive read about Molly and MDMA for about 6 years now. which is also about how long I've tried off and on. Ive always ALWAY seeked out the best and purest form because at one point I bought what I was told was X but in reality (after being lab tested) it came out as pure MDMA although pressed. This was the type of roll Le Junk has been talking about. Love and empathy abounding thought the night and amazing sleep followed by the afterglow next day... Amazing things happen in this state. Thats the true PTSD MDMA we should all be using. I say we use blockchain technology to integrate MDMA into therapy work in anyones life. It changes people. You could take a dosed PURE MDMA @ .25-.45 depending on weight. And completely disintegrate depression. Ayahuasca or ibogaine is not the only form of nearly overnight change that can take place in a human being with depression or addiction. MDMA has has profound changes in my life and I do test it every time and the color is not always the same so just test always. The best I've had is Slightly purple crystals.

 

[Glubrahnum]

Guys,

The relations of similar experiences, which you are writing about are very disturbing because they suggest, that there is an "Impostor MDMA" on the market which can not only deceive the primitive reagent tests, but also the more sophisticated tests such as: Immunoassays, Gas Chromatography and Mass Spectroscopy, which are commonly used in the professional labs.

The "Impostor MDMA" gives the real "Shulgin's MDMA" a bad rap, especially with new users.

If this lack of distinction between these substances is allowed to continue, then more damage will be done to MDMA's reputation than by all the efforts of the "war on drugs'", such as:
precursor restrictions, the deceptive NIDA postcards with "holes in the brain", criminal persecution, disparity between the harm and legal classification as described by David Nutt's 2007 report in the Lancet, Media bias that reports every death related to MDMA and almost none related to e.g. Paracetamol, attributing the CNS damage of Methamphetamine to MDMA by dishonest research of Mr. Ricaurte, etc...

Most importantly, it seems that people are losing their lives due to the higher effective doses required by the "Impostor MDMA" as evidenced by the MDMA's death statistics from the recent years.

For this problem to be noticed, we must distinguish between the objective and subjective evidence for existence of this "Imposter MDMA".
Real scientists will not listen to the descriptions of the feelings of users under the influence of MDMA, because they are too subjective.

We should focus on objective differences such as lack of pupil dilation ( mydriasis) and trismus while under the influence of this "Impostor MDMA" even with high doses in VIRGIN users.
The shorter duration of the effects might be admissible too, if the body temperature, pulse and blood pressure are measured and logged every 15min.
Circumstantial evidence, such as increase of MDMA doses in recently pressed pills, which goes against economic mechanisms, might be admissible too.

The scientific community will disregard (or heavily discount) any reports of non-VIRGIN users because of the possibility of MDMA tolerance and/or cross-tolerance with stimulants and anti-depressants. The same goes for any subjective reports such as "magic is gone" or "it wasn't velvety".

The ultimate goal is to develop an objective test for the "Impostor MDMA". Once this is done, the market will naturally reject it and the manufacturers will be forced to change their production methods.

What comes to mind is a Raman scattering spectrogram made with a polarized light as it can detect the enantiomer ratios in concentrated samples (crystals) without specimen preparation and evaporation unlike Gas Chromatography or Mass Spectroscopy.
To see how it works, see this video:
https://youtu.be/tRrOdKW06sk

Of course if the difference is caused by an antagonistic impurity or pharmacodynamics of different salts then the test can be made much simpler.


P.S.
Why do I even mention salt types?
Because different MDMA salts have different molar masses and that directly affects their minimum effective dosage ...and perhaps even their pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics.
I personally doubt that the former can result in the absence of Mydriasis (pupil dilation) with double doses (150mg) because not even the citric acid salt of MDMA is 2x heavier than its hydrochloride salt, which is well known to cause Mydriasis at 75mg in a 85kg subject.

I do not have knowledge of the pharmacokinetic/pharmacodynamic differences of various MDMA salts, so I would appreciate any input on that subject.

 

[Glubrahnum]

The best I've had is Slightly purple crystals.

Purple coloration might be indicative of Iodine contamination from a synthesis that uses that halogen.

 

[mostly-human]

Purple coloration might be indicative of Iodine contamination from a synthesis that uses that halogen.

IME - some of the strongest drugs I've ever taken have been off-colour due to impurity. IMHO - most clandestine labs don't produce 100% pure substances, so off-colour impurities are common. However, when combined with a clear/white cutter agent, these impurities are mostly taken-out. But if the substance is not cut and you get the 98% pure stuff, then you get that 2% impurity with the Red/Green/Blue/Purple/Etc colour showing through.

 

[Glubrahnum]

IMHO - most clandestine labs don't produce 100% pure substances, so off-colour impurities are common.

Yes, and it is significant whether these impurities are neutral, antagonistic or agonistic ...and/or toxic.

However, when combined with a clear/white cutter agent, these impurities are mostly taken-out.

I'd prefer to write, that they become visually obscured, since they are still there - just unobservable to a naked eye.
Also, it's worth noting, that impure substances and mixtures do not crystallize well.

 

[Phobos]

Also, it's worth noting, that impure substances and mixtures do not crystallize well.

I have been led to believe that, at least non the case of MDMA sold in crystal form, one of the possible cuts is a small amount of magnesium sulfate, because it helps growing big crystals.

 

[Pucman]

Let me first give you a little background. I'm 51 years old and started doing ecstasy the last year it was legal in 1985. Needless to say the legal ecstasy from the so called "Dallas Group" was nothing short of spectacular. In 1988 I made a connection with someone from the San Francisco area who was in the production field of making MDMA. I have maintained that friendship and connection ever since with only small periods of downtime. The MDMA I get from him is a bleach white crystalline powder that lays like snow. It's extremely fine in texture but lays fluffy just like snow. The high from this MDMA takes about 10-15 minutes to take effect and the high is always the same. An extremely smooth come up followed by excessive love and empathy. You will melt into the person you're with and sex is out of this world. Touch and feel is heavenly. Of course the eye wiggles and chattiness etc. The come down is just as smooth as the come up. It drops you off just like a feather and sleep comes like a baby. The next day is nothing short of spectacular. You wake up feeling anti-depressed and chatty. You'll want to talk on the phone, visit friends or just drive around and enjoy the day with the top down. It's all I've ever known as an MDMA experience.

Now that brings me to the current day street pills experience. There was a period back in the early 2000's when my connection was down and I scored pills from a local guy. They were great and with some very small exceptions, nearly as good as my crystalline powder. But once again I've been forced to score something locally and the stuff is just plain crap. And I mean crap. I've done both the orange Tesla's and the red Supremes. Absolutely awful, but from reading the trip reports on Pillreports, you would have thought they were the best ever. They're actually anything but. And both of these pills tested on ecstasydata as pure MDMA.

Both of them took about 30-40 minutes to kick in and when they did, there was a slight feeling of euphoria and empathy that quickly faded and from there on out it was just a fucked up buzz. There were eye wiggles, but I wasn't feeling good when they were happening. I became extremely tired and kind of gacked out. They seemed to last forever, maybe just because they sucked so much. I felt like a crackhead on the comedown and the next day felt like a bad MDA hangover. No next day afterglow at all. Just a different kind of fucked up than the night before. And that lasted the entire next day.

My question is this. Is this the best there is out there today? And since both pills tested on ecstasydata as pure MDMA, what is wrong with MDMA production nowdays? Does anyone else feel what I'm talking about here? My setting is pretty much always the same so that's not it. I always hear people talk about the setting as if that's an issue. With the crystalline powder, it doesn't matter where I am, it's always great. But with these Supremes and Teslas, it's just a sub-par, little euphoria, no real love or empathy, fucked up kinda buzz. Let me put it this way, if this was all that was available to me, I'd quit taking MDMA altogether. Terrible!

I lived in Dallas in the 80s when we went to a rave a pill was given upon entry fee. Those were the fucking days although I was young and Rave was just starting in the US. But on Dead tour we used to get similar snowflake and put it out on the table and anyone could do as much as they wanted. Always woke up in a naked hotel room. Not knowing who all I had sex with but love cuddles on the beds turned into orgies. Those were the greatest MDMA times I ever had. We had a tight crew and all females were welcomed. I haven’t used any in a long time but had chemist made every time. I have always been scared of pressed pills after all the good times I had back then, even in college we could turn a bar into a water only venue and asked by bartenderrs to not bring it in with us anymore. Scary, sketchy yes but we always tipped the bartenders well as they would participate all the same it just killed their business. Even ran one out of business in a college town, time to move on, everyone knew what was going on. God life has been good to me. I guess that’s why I am writing a book about it. It’s been in the works for years as most could not believe what a fairy tale life was like on the road. They last time I did some it was shaped like real quartz crystals and it was fire. However The Hangover was horrendous. Maybe like five years ago. Oh what a life.

 

[Pucman]

Captain Donuts and Big Willy, Shaggy and Dizzy, you guys had the real love on Dead tour! Ones a lawyer, ones a Broker, ones a triathlete and one passed. Grateful Dead tour 87-93.

 

[Theko]

From what I've read about the synthesis of MDMA in terms of the difference between producing it in clandestine lab and a professional lab, is that it's only possible in professional lab to see and capture small reactions that occur during the synthesis process so that the MDMA synthesis method can then be refined to increase the quality of the MDMA that is produced.

The capturing method can't be done in a clandestine lab because you have to use extremely expensive professional equipment to see the small reactions that take place during the process, which the vast majority of illegal labs (if any) do not have access to.
So I think the theory that MDMA made today in illegal labs using a new synthesis route is different, basically poorer quality defiantly has grounds to be true.

The old method of producing MDMA stems from a professional setting, so once MDMA became illegal, they copied this already know method to produce MDMA which was created by professional pharmacologist in a professional setting. When it was first introduced the capturing process would have be taken into account, they would have analysed the MDMA in great detail, so they would have known that particular synth route done in that particular way produces high quality MDMA.

I think an issue could be because the new synth method used today does not stem from a professional setting, it very likely has not undergone the same professional detailed analysis.
So the MDMA produced is likely to be lower quality, one, because it hasn't been checked in a professional lab, and two because you can't capturing detailed reactions that are taking place during the synth process in an illegal lab, resulting in a product that is less refined.

 

[turnupboss]

I feel lots of real md today even when testing as true mdma doesnt have the same power and magic as what it used to have.

Maybe today more chemist use short cuts, cheaper methods or less skill and passion.

I believe the problem is chemist now are only focused on the money and quick flip instead of passion and quality.

Yall kno the phrase.......THEY DONT MAKE EM LIKE THEY USED TOO.......

 

[Glubrahnum]

From what I've read about the synthesis of MDMA in terms of the difference between producing it in clandestine lab and a professional lab, is that it's only possible in professional lab to see and capture small reactions that occur during the synthesis process so that the MDMA synthesis method can then be refined to increase the quality of the MDMA that is produced.

I do not know what you mean by "capture".
And if by "seeing" small reactions, you mean analyzing the chemistry of impurities in the precursors, so that is not beyond small labs.

The capturing method can't be done in a clandestine lab because you have to use extremely expensive professional equipment to see the small reactions that take place during the process, which the vast majority of illegal labs (if any) do not have access to.

A small SERS spectrosope with a polarizer costs around $15000, and enables analysis of even small amount of substances without difficult sample preparation such as derivatization, evaporation and chiral columns needed for stereoselective analysis with Gas Chromatography.
...and if one is very motivated, it cab be bult for much less, see this video:
https://youtu.be/tRrOdKW06sk

The old method of producing MDMA stems from a professional setting, so once MDMA became illegal, they copied this already know method to produce MDMA which was created by professional pharmacologist in a professional setting.

In the 1970s maybe, but after MDMA was outlawed, the criminal networks were also producing good MDMA up to 2007, so it is not a matter of low quality control of the synths but rather some systematic error in the synths in the last decade.

When it was first introduced the capturing process would have be taken into account, they would have analysed the MDMA in great detail, so they would have known that particular synth route done in that particular way produces high quality MDMA.

That knowledge has not been lost. It is rather a new synth that is to be blamed than a low quality control of old ones.

I think an issue could be because the new synth method used today does not stem from a professional setting, it very likely has not undergone the same professional detailed analysis.

I think you are wrong, because such analyses are not only constantly done by the illicit manufacturers but by the forensic scientists as well. The latter publish papers regularly to help law enforcement identify and link different batches of drugs so their findings are not a secret.

So the MDMA produced is likely to be lower quality, one, because it hasn't been checked in a professional lab, and two because you can't capturing detailed reactions that are taking place during the synth process in an illegal lab, resulting in a product that is less refined.

The end product is tested in professional labs all the time. Intermediary reactions during the synth do not matter, only the pure end-product does. The purification step can be well done even by end users using anhydrous acetone and diethyl ether washes and Acid-Base extractions. From what I read they do not make much difference to the "Mongy" MDMA, that became prevalent after 2007.

This can be explained by:
- an similar isobaric substitute, e.g. 2,3-MDMA,
- an unknown but isobaric 3,4-MDMA antagonizing substance,
- a different 3,4-MDMA enantiomer ratio,
- or maybe, just maybe,... a different salt of 3,4-MDMA.

All of these reasons for the existence of "Mongy" MDMA are not the result of low-quality controls of a good old synth in clandestine labs (or it would happen before 2007, too ...and purification would help today). This Mongy MDMA is caused by some kind of systematic error in a new synth or precursor.
For example: A new one-pot synth that directly converts non-racemic 3,4-MDP2P Glycidate into 3,4-MDMA without going through the non-chiral 3,4-MDP2P step.

The only way to solve this problem is to analyze what is the systematic difference between the "Mongy" MDMA and original Shulgin's MDMA and find a cheap reliable test for this difference.
...e.g. if the problem it is the excess of the S-enantiomer, then perhaps an addition of a chiral acid the Maquis reagent can be made to make it stereoselective and give everyone a chance to distinguish the "Mongy MDMA" in other way than "empirically".
Once this is done, the market will "right itself".


Reminiscing how much better the pre-2007 MDMA was compared to contemporary MDMA is fun but does not solve the problem.

 

[Glubrahnum]

I feel lots of real md today even when testing as true mdma doesnt have the same power and magic as what it used to have.

I think this has already been established in this thread beyond reasonable doubt.

.Maybe today more chemist use short cuts, cheaper methods or less skill and passion.

Less skill and passion would produce impure product that could be purified by someone else and "improved". But such purifications do not seem to help, so the problem must be deeper. If it is an erroneous synth or precursor - it is imperative to devise a cheap and reliable test for this error, so the market can easily identify the BAD MDMA and "right itself".

There are over 20 substances that are similar to 3,4-MDMA (multiplied by the number of their enantiomers), that cannot be distinguished by Mass Spectroscopy and Gas Chromatography without derivatisation and chiral columns ( see this thread ).
Any one of them could by the "Mongy MDMA" or and antagonist against the "Good MDMA".

I believe the problem is chemist now are only focused on the money and quick flip instead of passion and quality.

That is obvious but greed generates predictable market behavior.
Once we have an easy test that distinguishes between the GOOD and BAD MDMA, the same greed will cause the BAD MDMA to disappear.

BTW: Ever since the BAD MDMA appeared on the market, the dosage and death statistics have increased, but the institutions that should protect human lives do nothing to distinguish/eliminate the BAD MDMA and still concentrate on eliminating ALL MDMA and drugs that compete with Ethanol consumption.

 

[growit&smokeit]

Good posts Glubrahnum! It's worth bringing up again that modern mdma seems to turn black on marquis reagents whereas in test kits from the 90s the stated reaction was to purple.

My very subjective test for Mdma is just if I take it when I'm out do I end up at some random house with some people I've made friends with that night. At the moment I have mdma that produces this affect.

 

[Glubrahnum]

Good posts Glubrahnum! It's worth bringing up again that modern MDMA seems to turn black on marquis reagents whereas in test kits from the 90s the stated reaction was to purple.

I know, but that color change is very unreliable since it depends on the exact ratio of formaldehyde to sulfuric acid in the Marquis reagent (which changes with age) as well as the ratio of the alleged MDMA to that reagent, as well as the mesh size of the tested powder and its purity.
Most importantly, we do not know what we testing for with this reagent - what this color difference means exactly.

We need a better test - one that is aimed exactly at the difference between the bad Mongy MDMA and the good Shulgin's MDMA.
For example: If the culprit is a bad enantiomer ratio, then a stereoselective reagent would be needed to spot it reliably, e.g. a Marquis reagent with a chiral acid added.

Even the professional labs need to get their act together and start analyzing submitted drugs more precisely, including small impurities, enantiomer ratios of the main active ingredients ...and maybe even their salt type.

My very subjective test for MDMA is just if I take it when I'm out, do I end up at some random house with some people I've made friends with that night. At the moment I have MDMA that produces this affect.

I hope you never encounter bad people on such adventures.
Are these other people also under the influence of the good MDMA... or just you ?

Do you get Mydriasis ( pupil dilation ) and if "yes" - at what minimal dose does that happen ?
What about Trismus ?

Would you be willing to send 1mg of this substance to a testing center if you had such option ?

 

[G_Chem]

Hey Glubra,

Thank you for your contributions and desire to set this straight. I've also been working on this issue and just posted another thread on the topic I think you'd find interesting.

I personally in my area still get MDMA that provides me with powerful fully empathogenic experiences for 4-6hrs or more at 120mg plus 40mg booster. Just had the most amazing experience actually less than a week ago and haven't seen my pupils that big in awhile although to be fair I'm not usually by a mirror when I roll and my pupils are probably always huge like that. I never run into bad mongy product in my area and also still feel afterglows even after 13yrs of use.

With that said I've stumbled upon Dutch presses a few times and seen how they vary in effect compared to the local product. I gave someone a Dutch press supposedly 150+mg and he said he was barely feeling it!! With little mydriasis, 150mg should have your pupils like dinner plates.

For those that bring up reagent color differences, I've found all that difference tells you is whether safrole is present or not. I haven't really noticed too much of correlation between color of reagent and effects, but more experimentation needs to be done on that.

Another thing I've noticed too is that there is a strong correlation between the rise in threads regarding long lasting negative symptoms and this supposed new "imposter" MDMA. As soon as the Dutch mega beans got popular people started coming in in mass numbers. Could be related to increased availability and decreased harm reduction awareness or could be related to the problem at hand..

I'd be more than willing to send some "good" product in but I think we'd still be in the dark until as you said labs up their game a bit and start testing for things like isomers, salts, etc.

-GC

 

[Safrolette]

^ Awesome, awesome work and post. Too right this is familiar from my observations. This nonsense about all us nostalgic "old timers" being unfairly critical of the present day situation in the face of "irreparable tolerance" is absolute crap. Of course this might well be a factor in a specific situation relevant to one individual but it is not what is plainly happening across the board on a regular basis.

What Glubrahnum has described for "dutch MDMA crystal" is precisely what I have experienced and seen in others, including those completely new to the game. Earlier in this thread or in a different one, I spoke about how me, my friends and other "ravers" appeared in our old raver photoraphs from 1999 to 2006 (following on from which were a number of predictable and derisive replies). The expressions on most of our faces is nothing short of priceless - massive pupils and a ridiculous looking grin from ear to ear that is made effortlessly due to the loved up state which the entire party is in. My memories of many of these nights are crystal clear - they were life changing experiences which demanded one get up, move and communicate with other people on a level which is rarely achievable without such enhancement; and when you weren't otherwise dancing and communicating, you were generally moaning in ecstasy from one of the many massages you might receive, often from complete strangers.

I see none of this now when we are talking about the "suspect" crystals or mongy mega dosed pills - people are introverted, lacking in energy and not at all loved up; the pupil dilation is entirely underwhelming and their memories of the spacey, whacked out couple of hours they have just drifted aimlessly through, is in comparative terms far poorer.

Now, there is no question that these effects are not the case for every pill or every quantity of powder, far from it. But for many, this is the new norm and it is not at all reflective of the reasons for why MDMA was referred to as "ecstasy" or the "love drug" in the first place.

Dear Biscuit, I'll give you a virtual hug. I'm in my 50s and you have no idea how many times I have been slagged off for saying that the pills and MDMA powder of the past few years have absolutely nothing in common with the stuff of the good old days, apart from the name.
It's actually the main reason why I stopped using five or six years ago: a barely there buzz, a mongey feeling, followed by a huge mental and physical comedown. Not to mention that they feel so 'dirty'

 

[Theko]

I do not know what you mean by "capture".
And if by "seeing" small reactions, you mean analyzing the chemistry of impurities in the precursors, so that is not beyond small labs.


A small SERS spectrosope with a polarizer costs around $15000, and enables analysis of even small amount of substances without difficult sample preparation such as derivatization, evaporation and chiral columns needed for stereoselective analysis with Gas Chromatography.
...and if one is very motivated, it cab be bult for much less, see this video:
https://youtu.be/tRrOdKW06sk


In the 1970s maybe, but after MDMA was outlawed, the criminal networks were also producing good MDMA up to 2007, so it is not a matter of low quality control of the synths but rather some systematic error in the synths in the last decade.


That knowledge has not been lost. It is rather a new synth that is to be blamed than a low quality control of old ones.


I think you are wrong, because such analyses are not only constantly done by the illicit manufacturers but by the forensic scientists as well. The latter publish papers regularly to help law enforcement identify and link different batches of drugs so their findings are not a secret.


The end product is tested in professional labs all the time. Intermediary reactions during the synth do not matter, only the pure end-product does. The purification step can be well done even by end users using anhydrous acetone and diethyl ether washes and Acid-Base extractions. From what I read they do not make much difference to the "Mongy" MDMA, that became prevalent after 2007.

This can be explained by:
- an similar isobaric substitute, e.g. 2,3-MDMA,
- an unknown but isobaric 3,4-MDMA antagonizing substance,
- a different 3,4-MDMA enantiomer ratio,
- or maybe, just maybe,... a different salt of 3,4-MDMA.

All of these reasons for the existence of "Mongy" MDMA are not the result of low-quality controls of a good old synth in clandestine labs (or it would happen before 2007, too ...and purification would help today). This Mongy MDMA is caused by some kind of systematic error in a new synth or precursor.
For example: A new one-pot synth that directly converts non-racemic 3,4-MDP2P Glycidate into 3,4-MDMA without going through the non-chiral 3,4-MDP2P step.

The only way to solve this problem is to analyze what is the systematic difference between the "Mongy" MDMA and original Shulgin's MDMA and find a cheap reliable test for this difference.
...e.g. if the problem it is the excess of the S-enantiomer, then perhaps an addition of a chiral acid the Maquis reagent can be made to make it stereoselective and give everyone a chance to distinguish the "Mongy MDMA" in other way than "empirically".
Once this is done, the market will "right itself".


Reminiscing how much better the pre-2007 MDMA was compared to contemporary MDMA is fun but does not solve the problem.

If the new synthesis method has undergone detailed professional analysis and there has not been any reported difference in the MDMA made in that fashion (which they surely would have found if a deficiency was present within the final product, other than the purity level) then I think there likely is no deficiency occurring due to the synthesis route, and the only thing causing a difference in quality is the same reason as we had in the past, which is illegal labs are not strictly run to always produce a high quality product, so it varies from batch to batch and from lab to lab.

I feel I'm leaning towards a conclusion that many illegal labs although knowing a new synthesis route to produce MDMA, are very often not using professional level detailed analysis techniques to ensure that the final product is produced to a very high standard, and it is that which is causing large batches being made in Europe and other parts of the world to vary and to be lower quality than some of the MDMA which people have taken in the past.

Thinking back to the late 90's there was a lot of MDMA around that was not high quality, and the MDMA that was stood out like a saw thumb compared to the rest because it was largely in the minority. Like the first Mitsubishi pills which appeared having a very big impact on the dance scene back in the day because they were notably higher quality than literally every other pill that was available.

I feel it suggests the process of making very high quality MDMA is not as simple as following a known recipe, and there is a professional level detailed refining process that needs to be done in order to produce that kind of high quality product, it seems to me that even back in the late 90's only a select number of sources were producing that standard of MDMA, and today it very likely is the same.