Miss GBL/GHB? Try this combination of more available drugs...

[Treacle]

It's been a while since I started a thread, but I'm hoping it'll be of use to someone. As many people will be aware, I had a massive G problem, when it was legal (and for a while after), but it's now very difficult to find it in smaller amounts, so I avoid it. If I have to order half a litre, I will take it until it's gone, so I have to be careful. However, I've experimented with similar drugs, over the years. Phenibut is quite similar, but without the dopamine kick of G, and the ridiculously long half-life means a lot of people end up in very severe withdrawals, which are nastier and longer lasting than G. This means it's unwise to have the stuff about, if you've had an issue with stopping G. That brings me to baclofen, which has been discussed on here, quite a bit. Being a prescription drug, it's possible to get it from a doctor, and it's also available from online pharmacies, at very reasonable prices, as it's not considered to be a drug of abuse.

Being a GABA-b agonist, it hits the same GABA sites as GHB/GBL and phenibut. However, it has a shorter half-life than phenibut, and it's much easier to taper off and stop than both phenibut and G. Once again, though, there's no dopamine kick, which makes it fairly non-recreational to most people (other than me, seemingly). In order to get the dopamine flowing, speed is just the ticket (coke may be preferable, to people not wanting a long session). With proper amphetamine and baclofen, you'll get the combination of a GABA-b agonist and a dopamine releasing agent (and also dopamine reuptake inhibition, as a bonus), like G is. Now, I'm not saying that this combination is necessarily as good as G, as G also affects serotonin and other neurotransmitters, in a way that isn't fully understood. However, it has several advantages. Firstly, as mentioned, baclofen isn't as nasty as G to stop, and is actually quite easy to get off (not that cold-turkey is at all pleasant). Secondly, the duration: a dose of baclofen and speed will be felt for most of the day, and likely longer, depending what dose is taken, which means no redosing is really necessary, unless you want to push things further (no need to carry a bottle of liquid and a pipette around). Thirdly, baclofen and very strong speed are easily available, which means you don't need a big bottle of G sitting around. Fourthly, knocking yourself out and acting like a dick is much harder (even with alcohol carefully added)! These are all good reasons to consider this combination.

I have had this combination enough times to know that there's no fluke involved, when it comes to the effects. I have taken a lot of baclofen, over the years and I do enjoy it on its own, or with alcohol and weed (do be careful with baclofen and booze, I've woke up pissing all over my bathroom, before now). I take speed often and have a good tolerance, especially to the more pleasurable effects. However, throwing baclofen into the mix feels like I've had a month away from the stuff. The baclofen greatly decreases the side-effects of the speed (think benzos), without affecting the desirable effects (like benzos do). A combination of the two means that you can get some proper euphoria going, without being a twitchy mess. Both drugs increase sexual arousal (in my case, at least), lower inhibitions (increasing social feelings) and invoke euphoria. Together, it's much more than just adding the effects together; it's more like they synergise in a unique way. It's been a long time since I felt this sort of euphoria from amphetamine, and I know that baclofen is the cause. As with G, I could probably quite easily eat, and coming down/sleeping is much more controlled and pleasant than speed alone.

Anyway, I hope you've enjoyed my essay and theories. I'm sure you can see that it's got me quite excited. I could add loads more, but I won't. If anyone has tried this combination, or has any ideas, then speak up. Otherwise, give it a whirl and let me know if it's just me! I personally find dosing the baclofen at 40mg is a good place to start, with as much speed as you'd normally take. I find about 70mg of baclofen to be my sweet-spot, but a dose like that will make some people feel very sick, dizzy and sleepy (as with too much G!), and it lasts for much longer, so start low. Baclofen can and will floor you, if you take the piss with it. I've personally had 90mg, along with copious amounts of speed and some alcohol, so far today, and it's treating me amazingly.

Happy experimenting!

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Is Bacoflen a pharmaceutical substance, fairly easily available, even OTC, or do you need some kind of prescription?

Btw have you tried Pregabalin?

It's probably cos it hits the same receptors as G and Bacoflen that it can have some awesome effects on music. It has no stimulant action though, it does feel like G with no legs, and is much more suitable for a chilled mid week staying in night, if you have work the next day, or just want something different occasionally. I used lots of it a couple of years ago, but tolerance doubles if you take it on successive days. This has been quite useful in preventing yet another habit formation.

As it significantly boosts the hypnotic effects of benzos i have to avoid it for the time being. Im having enough trouble maintaining a stable benzo dose and keeping regular sleep hours as it is.8(

 

[Treacle]

It's prescription, but easily available from online pharmacies without one. I was on pregabalin for years. I also got that online, then asked my doctor to script it me, for anxiety. Was on 450mg a day, but often took more, with alcohol and benzos. The good news is that I no longer really have anxiety, but it did make me gain three stone, which took me a long time to shift! I'm not on it now, after I tapered myself off. I occasionally take it before bed, if I need a decent sleep, and I need to wake up without a hangover.

 

[smackydowners]

i used baclofen quite a bit a few years ago. personally, it didnt really wow me at all, and high doses made me feel awful. it's a fairly nice muscle relaxant/anxiolytic but i much prefer benzos.

however, i could see baclofen being used as a benzo/ghb substitute as someone may find it much easier to have a bottle of baclofen lying around than a bottle of G or a box of valium.

 

[yoyo50]

been thinking about getting some g, but always ends with me going to docs asking for baclofen for the wd's, never got high of them but they did help kill the wds

 

[deruyityn]

note: i dont know why my formatting is all fucked up but whatever i type it just reverts to a wall of text? interesting. ive been looking at baclofen for a while since it sounded like a safer version of ghb in regards to addiction potential is that correct? what about physical withdrawals? are they not to be worried about as long as you dont take the piss? ie on par with kratom for instance in terms of having a failrly large window? one day on a few days off and ok? ive been wanting to do some controlled experiments again with 2fa for a real long time now but i stopped myself because i didnt have a downer i would feel comfortable with when i would need some sleep. benzoes would make me more panicked just worrying about if i was planting the seeds for addiction since they are known as the kings of withdrawals. i had been finding it extremely hard to find any downer for sleep which would be strong enough to quell the fire of a dopamine booster (i dont take huge doses but its my paranoid mind which gets me; leaving me sleepless and worried when i will next fall asleep stuck in a loop however dopamine drugs i must say have alot of therapeutic potenttial as a workaholic) yet not too frightening in terms of possible addictive potential. what about the supposed side effect of psychosis with baclofen? i thought this was a very strange purported side effect for a gaba type drug yet there are medical reports online about psychotic episodes of ppl prescribed it. or are those 'rare edge cases' Regarding online pharmacies arent they even more shady than rc vendors? i mean more shady than a trusted vendor? i always wonder how they manage to legally operat? how do they persuade pharmacies to give them drugs that they know would be sold online or what kind of corrupt doctor would it take to be associated withtthose kind of places? at least with the big uk guys you have a fairly good idea of how they do business.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Any comments as to how Baclofen combines with benzos?

IME GBL renders benzos completely ineffective, but Pregababalin can potentiate the hypnotic effects of benzos. I've done a bit of skim reading up on Baclofen and from what i gather it can be substituted for benzos in the direst emergencies. I was thinking of intermittently and temporarily using Bacoflen alongside a lower than normal benzo dose, as a potential means of speeding up the reduction of benzo consumption and tolerance. Any thoughts?

I have noticed previously that just missing one nights benzos (and making do with the halflife from the previous day) whilst on a stim binge or something, that when i do then next take benzos i feel them far more strongly even at a lower dose, of course it might just be that having missed a nights sleep i am naturally going to be far more sensitive to the sedative effects of benzos.

 

[Treacle]

Yes, I do have some comments regarding benzos. In my opinion, it's not like combining G and benzos. In my case, I've found that stronger benzos (like alprazolam) almost completely stop any dose of G working, even in normal amounts, if the G is taken afterwards. G has to activate GHB receptors in the brain, before any GABA/dopamine/serotonin systems are affected, and benzos seem to block that action. GHB is an excitatory neurotransmitter (in the amounts naturally present in the brain), so this would make sense. I remember taking 1mg of alprazolam, one day, and taking maybe 7 or 8mls of GBL, over the course of that day, and feeling absolutely nothing, until the alprazolam started to wear off, and I suddenly passed out.

I've also found the opposite; that benzos have a lessened effect, whilst on G, but I've only ever really taken them to stop withdrawals, so they definitely had their work cut out for them. Only another GABA-b agonist will successfully alleviate really nasty G withdrawals. On the other hand, G used to enable me to stop benzos and alcohol, for the time I was taking it (whether days or weeks). Baclofen is being touted as a drug to help with alcohol withdrawal, and I must say that I get much more of an effect from alcohol, and no desire to take benzos, when I take baclofen. Benzos and baclofen, from what I can remember, do work together, but it's not a combination I ever get the urge to do. Baclofen alone will make you very sleepy, or make you pass out, if you take enough. I would think that you could definitely use baclofen to taper off benzos, then just taper the baclofen. It'd have to be strict, though. It could also definitely end up in two addictions. Use your own discretion, I suppose.

 

[HouseFever]

Baclofen is literally (to me anyway), a fucking miracle of a drug. Literally no withdrawals off g, the only thing I got was, 'well everythings boring without G'. But that just comes with the territory of it pretty much making everything better, while instead you're just fucking addicted. I tried baclofen and Benzos, and found it just gave me a heavy benzo head. I found there to be zero recreation in baclofen.

 

[Treacle]

Well, if it got you off G, that proves that it's a potent GABA-b agonist, at least. With a decent stimulant, I reckon you'd probably find it works rather well at removing another layer or two of inhibitions. On its own, it's not especially interesting. GABA-b agonists can be pretty odd/magical, depending on what else you're mixing them with.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

If Bacoflen could be a useful aid in helping me reduce benzos, whilst also being careful not to take it too often and pick up another habit, then that alone makes it definitely worth trying. If I also find that I enjoy the effects of the substance then that would be a double edged sword, as it could become more tempting and seductive as an alternative option. Though from what i have read most people seem of the opinion that it is pretty underwhelming in recreational terms. Plus I do also believe i have learnt my lessons the hard way about falling headlong into dependancies.

In a way I have been lucky with G as although I enjoy it at the time, it seriously fucks up my sleep and i have felt really nauseous and ill after my last 2 sessions, although that may simply be down to stretching them out too long and consuming too much. There's just no way my physiology is wired up to become addicted to G, my body cannot really handle it, unlike other things that tick all the right boxes with no immediate adverse affects, but which have lead to medium-term habits that im going to have to quit due to this UK Blanket Ban on NPS.

 

[Treacle]

I wish I was physically unable to deal with G, as it would have saved me a lot of trouble! I reckon you could substitute a dose or two of benzos a day with baclofen, and eventually switch completely to baclofen, then easily taper off it. It's a hell of a lot quicker to withdraw from baclofen, but it can also be extremely unpleasant, if you cold turkey it, just like G/phenibut. At least the risk of seizures and death is much lower. Ha.

 

[HouseFever]

Well, if it got you off G, that proves that it's a potent GABA-b agonist, at least. With a decent stimulant, I reckon you'd probably find it works rather well at removing another layer or two of inhibitions. On its own, it's not especially interesting. GABA-b agonists can be pretty odd/magical, depending on what else you're mixing them with.

Baclofen was weird for me, it felt like a background drug doing lots of GABA-b agnosticy stuff, without being pronounced in the forefront of my consciousness, that sounds obvious with GABA-b of course, in terms of loss of inhibitions. I felt sober as can be but can remember having this kinda respect for it's kindness, like it said me straight. Like G, it felt like that's how I should always feel. If that makes any sense. I tried it with a stim and Benzos, only Ethh if I remember, but had no synergy at all.

I wish I was physically unable to deal with G, as it would have saved me a lot of trouble!

Me also

 

[koneko]

Only had the chance to try very little baclofen Treacle and it did the trick physically and made me functional enough to get away with it.

Adding stimulants of any sort into me is always a disaster...so I'm going to pass on that idea not matter how lovely it may be.

I've just had my last GBL run without any trouble, maybe after all these years I'm starting to learn 8( I'm still using xanax to normalise and then get off the fucking X, but its at last doable.

 

[ColtDan]

After dabbling with G far too much awhile ago and having to rely on benzos to get me to sleep after, which became too frequent, and compulsive re-dosing, i coulda landed myself in a right shit state. Rebound becoming more frequent and more severe. Horny effects started to subside. Then ran out & i havent touched it for 8-ish months, and despite how much i enjoyed it i dont miss it or want it that much. quite surprised tbh

Fortunately very few K/O doses, conking out always used to result in rebound. shite effects as well

 

[mydrugbuddy]

I wish I was physically unable to deal with G, as it would have saved me a lot of trouble! I reckon you could substitute a dose or two of benzos a day with baclofen, and eventually switch completely to baclofen, then easily taper off it. It's a hell of a lot quicker to withdraw from baclofen, but it can also be extremely unpleasant, if you cold turkey it, just like G/phenibut. At least the risk of seizures and death is much lower. Ha.

Thanks again for the info, this could prove very helpful.

In your opinion is there much difference between generic Bacoflen and the brand name stuff (apart from the price)?

Some people swear that generic prescription substances are complete bunk, but ime with Modafinl and Pregabalin there has been very little difference in the effects, (apart from the generics not being as strong) but with the price being about 10 times cheaper, the generic Pregabalin in particular has still been plenty strong enough with little or no tolerance, and if really necessary it still works out far cheaper just to double up the dose to get the same effects as the branded stuff and it still works out miles cheaper. After all if you look at things like anti-histamines and Loperamide in particular the ingredients are 100% the same and there is no difference in effects at a fraction of the price.

 

[deruyityn]

So how is this baclofen stuff in terms of having to be worried about physical addiction? is it on par with kratom in that you dont really need to worry as long as you dont take every day? since ive used kratom for over a year a couple times a week with no troubles at all and no desire to take more.

I would like to take this in a similar fashion albeit if on a lesser basis if it is dangerous to take more often, maybe for social disinhibition occasionally and if i want something to sleep after light stimulant use. I always would be shitscared when i took benzoes after stims as i would keep myself awake worrying if taking them even that given time was sowing the seeds for the nightmarish addiction i read about.

Never had issues with stim use in terms of addiction but sleep has always eluded me. and was too afraid of heavy gabaergics due to the horrendous stories. Id like to find something which is similalry lenient to kratom but for the gaba receptors where it may cause addiction but you have a decent margin of error. would baclofen suit or is it more dangerous than that?

ghb sounds similarly lenient in terms of physical addiction in how long it takes but very bad in the other respects that are well documented.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Some people find ghb fiendishly adedictive within a very short space of time. Oddly enough ive had no problems in that regard but have become addicted very quickly to practically everything else ive ever acquired.. I think GBL was one of the last of the potentially addictive substances that i ever tried, maybe i had learnt my lessons the hard way by then, or maybe im just not wired up to become addicted to GBL, i really dunno. Your Kratom usage suggests a very controlled and sensible nature, quite unlikley to get into addiction difficlutlies. Please dont take that as a cue for complacency, there is a fair bit of leeway with most substances that i have tried at least (ive never tried Crack or Meth for example) but you still cant afford to let your guard down for long.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Out of curiosity isn't this GBL a date-rape drug cause it puts you to sleep? What is the appeal? (Please don't have a go I'm simply asking out of curiosity).

Evey

 

[mydrugbuddy]

It can in overdose, but correctly dosed it can make music sound blissfull, especially when combined with stims and 'noids. I wouldnt recommend having that round the house with a wee nipper, if you do manage to find a source, beware random internet sources, 99% will either be bunk or scams. There are no child proof caps, and thats not even considering the fact that it could become a problem substance for you.