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Don't take Amphetamines or MDMA if you want to preserve you're brain

well, now that you mention it, it doesn't matter how many people have or haven't seen or experienced it, it doesn't change anything, may be i shouldn't have added that last bit
 
swisscurrie said:
Trozzle- you think SilentRoller's comment wasn't a personal insult?
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No actually, I don't. He called you a troll, which given the direction your comments turned, I'd be hard pressed to disagree.

I presume you know what a troll is in this context.
 
Let me just try and calm things down a second....

Listen mate, no-one on this forum is trying to put you down or insult you. What has happened is you have come on a HR forum, to express your opinion on MDMA (which you are allowed to do, and we respect you for). However, what you seem to have failed to do is listen to any answers, than seem to contradict your own opinion.

There are people on this forum from various professions, that range from doctors, pharmacologists, chemists, teachers and post-men. Many of these people have experience, and most probably know more about drugs and their actions than you and I will ever know. However, you come across as arrogant and seem incapable of being told you may be wrong. I'm sorry, but this paints you as arrogant and people aren't going to like you if you continue like this. Secondly, by resorting to personal insults, you make yourself look immature and childish. There are people on this board who know more than you. You are a small fish in a big pond.

Accept it and try acting with more decorum, or leave.
 
swisscurrie said:
I'm not saying that all the people on this forum have suffered neurotoxicity- I was mainly referring to Black's assertion that smoking a minimal amount of cannabis was to blame for his year long psychiatric issues. Why would I make this thread if I wasn't trying to help people?

I've become defensive in my comments because I've been continuously attacked since the start of this thread.
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Look closer at the thread in chronological order, and you should find the answer.

Quote: "Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return."

W.H. Auden

You seem to not understand this. Normally, I wouldn't even follow this, eg. People who care about me or people I care about.

If you are who I think you are, and that's a big if even though you fit it to a T, this is basically what happened here. Going back further, you said "they refuse to believe that they personally got affected by mdma." How exactly, concerning people in this thread, do you know this? It is highly suspected that this was your intent. And also, what makes this your fucking business??

Here's another example:
You are A, and I am B.

A attacks B.
B attacks A in return.

A believes he was wronged, acts like the victim and points to B as the one at fault.

Do you see the problem here? This is very elementary, as evidenced by the morals they try to ingrain in you in elementary school that "treat others the way you want to be treated." Which is the reverse of the quote above.

You are not doing this...hardcore.

You shell out attacks, you get it back. You go out into the real world and try to do this, it will be much worse out there. I guarantee you that.
 
You clearly don't know or understand me KI519. Everyone who posted a good point and was at least somewhat polite, I responded to respectfully. Dresden started it off with the first reply, saying that in real terms, my argument was bullshit, without justifying his point and simply claiming this because he individually doesn't feel he got affected by the drugs. No one commented on his view as being flawed, when it clearly was. Most of your post makes no sense so I can't really comment on it.
 
Both my parents are pharmacologists and I'm training for a career in that direction. My parents, and I'm certain almost all qualified physician's in the Western world would agree with the points I'm making. They also wouldn't resort to deluded, subjective counter-arguments - such as stating that all the researchers who conducted the studies are "anti-drug, prohibitionist" assholes who intend to do us harm.
 
But if in fact MDMA is neurotoxic like you stated, why is there such big commution around fellow scientists about the harm of said drug? Being a pharmacologist trained and employed by big Pharma industries doesn't say much, because the brain is still an unexplored area or why do we need trials for side effects?

I was on Abilify and Risperdal, which are both said to be relative save, but in my experience they increased my heart rate and blood pressure. It felt like poison with no clear positive effects. This drugs are perscribed by pharmacologists! Just saying...

In comparison MDMA and shrooms helped me fight my major depression like no other thing. If there is some damage done, it doesn't really bother me, because it at least gave me a new perspective.

By the way: Cocaine damages your heart vessels undetactable by modern technology. Stimulants are always damaging, because the least they will do is putting more oxidative stress on your system. If you get a stroke, because of it you are going to experience brain damage anyway...
 
Let's just all stop responding to him now. He has obviously demonstrated he is unable to receive criticism and be challenged on his views.
 
I don't know mb-909, I thought the evidence on MDMA neurotoxicity was pretty conclusive. You're right though, the brain and the effects of most psychoactive drugs on it are largely unknown.

I also agree that trialing for side effects is a priority. I find it hard to believe how many high potency typical antipsychotics got approved for human use by the FDA. Especially when many of them, such as haloperidol and droperidol, are currently used for non-psychiatric conditions such as post-operative nausea. The side effect profile of neuroleptics is arguably more severe and damaging than any other class of drug.

If you don't mind me asking, why were you put on two antipsychotics? And who told you that they were safe?

Psilocybin definitely has the potential to treat mental illness, and over the years there were studies that demonstrated its rapid efficacy and low side effect profile in OCD and MDD. I'm glad you are feeling better because of it.

I agree with the last argument you made.
 
I was put on psychotics, because I was on the breaking point of my life. MDMA helped me to regain my feelings/ emotions being lost for years. I have had hallucinated often and have had been suidicial on a daily basis. Forgetting how to speak, laying in bed starring at walls for most of the day clouded in racing thoughts on nature and humanity. The world turned and I didn't understand the people anymore with all their hate towards each other. I wasn't able to control myself and always made steps backwards (I realized later that there are no steps backwards - there will always be new perspectives created because of it).

Psychward was the last option, so I decided to go there to give it a try, because I finally wanted to live again. I was diagnosed with F-21, shizoactive disorder. Being around people drugged for most of the day I finally decided to try any sort of medicine to break through the circle of pain/ hopelessness. I wanted a neuroprotective medication and was told to take neuroleptics.

So I started to take risperdal at 1 mg per day for 8 days and after that aripiprazole for 28 days at 10 mg, reducing it on my own from 10 to 0 mg over 20 days. Coming of them I took a drink mixed with MDMA 5 days later and hell broke lose. 7 months later I am still feeling a little bit more foggy, but I am used to it through my severe depression, which was the second diagnosis.
I still think that I will mostly recover from the damage done since I have been avoiding drugs of any sort most of my life (140 beer, 9 times MDMA, 54 days on neuroleptics, 20 gr. coffeine in total over my 22 years of existence).

Right now I am doing ok and I am on my way to regain my life, creating a new world for me. Even if I have made only a handful positive experiences over the last 8 years, I still believe in the greatness of simply being yourself telling that everybody is special and can achieve greatness no matter of their condition. Violence doesn't really exist in my point of world view, since it never has made sense to me. I always try to understand the person behind the mask, not knowing if he/she is the person he/she looks to be. Language is the reason for our achievements, but it is also one of the reasons for our hardships (wars, hate etc...).
 
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I agree with OP in some areas. All i know is MDMA is much more neurotoxic than amp and methamp. I've been dabbling more and more with methamp recently and i feel fine after one day of recovery / sleep. How ever with MDMA even 3-4 days down i still feel gloomy and my overall brain function still seems very off.

I hope to god methamp does not permanently damage the brain for life because it just feels brilliant and the recovery isn't all that bad.
 
How ever with MDMA even 3-4 days down i still feel gloomy and my overall brain function still seems very off.
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How you 'feel' the next day is no indication of how neurotoxic a drug is. That's simply just the hangover which as we know subsides. Destruction of neurons is not something which just subsides over time. I feel really shitty after drinking and my brain function feels very off but does that mean I've incurred brain damage? No it doesn't. We come back to Black's post:

depression is not neurotoxicity. neither is bad memory performance, altered brain activity or a decreased serto-concentration. death of neurons, dendrites or axons is neurotoxicity.
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You're very brave. I'm a bit confused about one thing, you said that MDMA helped you regain your feelings / emotions, but then you later said that all hell broke loose after you drunk a drink mixed with MDMA. Do you feel MDMA helped you overall?

You've taken fewer drugs in your life than I have, that's for sure. As someone previously posted, the brain is very plastic, so I don't think you have sustained any permanent damage from the small amount of drugs you took.

Your very smart and have a great life philosophy. I'm glad your feeling better and hope you make a full recovery :)
 
F1nished- I disagree that MDMA is more neurotoxic than Methamphetamine. Meth is directly neurotoxic to dopamine and serotonin neurons, while MDMA is selectively neurotoxic to serotinergic nerve terminals. Even though Meth is relatively more toxic to dopamine neurons than serotonin neurons, it it still more neutoxic to 5-HT terminals than MDMA in the forebrain region of rodents, non-human primates and humans.

If you smoked cannabis the day before or during your Meth use, then the neurotoxicity may have been largely negated :)

For the future though, I advise you to stop using Meth.
 
JWills20- Binge drinking has been proven to cause brain damage, but I doubt this applies to you.
 
Binge drinking has been proven to cause brain damage, but I doubt this applies to you
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So why does MDMA-induced brain damage somehow apply to all of us?
 
I didn't say binge drinking induced brain damage didn't apply to all of us. I just figured, being a moderator of a HR forum , that you would have the common sense to moderate your drinking enough to preserve your health.
 
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