• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

A Second Look at MAOI's?

An interesting thought: smoking causes significant reduction in MAO-B enzyme levels, because tobacco contains various MAOIs, but smoking among schizophrenics is more prevalent than in the non-schizophrenic population, and it's hypothesized that it's a kind of self-medication, because nicotine and it's major psychoactive metabolite, cotinine has antipsychotic effect, also: they could reduce the cognitive symptoms of schizophrenia.

Post-mortem radioligand binding assays found lower a7 nicotinic receptor numbers in schizophrenics and there are active clinical studies to determine if selective a7 agonists (or nicotinic agents in general) could reduce the symptoms of schizophrenia.

I think the antipsychotic effect of nicotinic drugs outweigh the "psychosis-promoting" effect of elevated PEA levels, but it's pure speculation.
 
Interesting discussion. I wonder if PEA serves a valuable role in the body or if it's just some kind of byproduct.
 
Selegeline was a drug I was on for quite some time during the course of my treatment with a very unorthodox doctor in Los Angeles... Anyway, I found that it was very helpful (I also have been dealing with severe depression/anxiety for much of my life) and I am currently on Celexa, the gold standard SSRI and I am actually considering trying to find a doctor that would be willing to prescribe Selegeline to me. You are right in that doctors have been made to think that MAOI's are seriously dangerous but what I've found is that Selegeline (and this is the only MAOI I have any personal experience with (or looked into) has a very safe profile and is generally simply grouped into the whole "MAOI's are bad!" mindset that many psychiatrists/doctors have adopted.
 
I was on Selegiline (1.25-2.5mg/day) and it was the most creative five months of my life, but at the same time it made me really anxious and had bad side-effects related to sympathetic stimulation, like muscle twitching, short tinnitus "attacks" and insomnia. Also it potentiated nicotine to an unbearable degree (selegiline and its metabolites inhibit the metabolism of nicotine).

I was also on Moclobemide, which is a selective MAO-A inhibitor with no apparent benefits. ;_;
 
Seems like MAOIs are safe when used in combination with MDMA as well:


MsT3tvq.png



https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=24742
 
...for one dude.

For fuck's sake, people!
...
MAO-A can only do so to a small extent, from what I understand.

You understand incorrectly. MAOA is mildly to moderately selective for NE and 5ht and will happily metabolize amphetamine or mdma when MAOB doesn't get there first. Knocking out not one but two metabolic enzymes is insane, as is knocking out MAOA, as NE is responsible for most of the physiological stimulation.

ebola
 
Seems like MAOIs are safe when used in combination with MDMA as well:


MsT3tvq.png



https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=24742

I don't think it is valid to reach that conclusion based on a single report. If you've ever heard of the LD50, you know that only 50% of the animals die at that dose. I wouldn't want to take anywhere near that dose, even though it might not harm everyone who takes it.
 
I don't think it is valid to reach that conclusion based on a single report. If you've ever heard of the LD50, you know that only 50% of the animals die at that dose. I wouldn't want to take anywhere near that dose, even though it might not harm everyone who takes it.

Well said, there's a big difference between "one person survived this" and "guaranteed safe every time".
 
If there were human data, I'd probably pick the LD0.2 as a ceiling dose, never to be touched. :p

ebola
 
Could I please have opinions on 30mg Selegiline and 600mg Moclobemide a day, concomitantly? I've had 30mg Selegiline and 300mg Moclobemide for a short time, but I felt the Moclobemide was not that helpful so I dropped it. Doc wants me to try a higher dose of Moclobemide to adjunct my Selegiline before he gives Tranylcypromine a go.
Worth noting here that I am prescribed 15mg Selegiline and 600mg Moclobemide a day, I just have a month and a bit of Selegiline saved up, so don't get mad at the doc, just me.

:)
 
Yeah, I think moclobemide is toxic garbage. I experienced particularly toxic effects in high doses. Extreme agitation; thought I was going to leave my body. There are many other MAOIs: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/750761-harmine-and-its-similarity-to-serotonin

Harmine may be one of the purest, which is no surprise since it's made by plants that have been around for eons.


Banisteriopsis caapi, a unique combination of MAO inhibitory and antioxidative constituents for the activities relevant to neurodegenerative disorders and Parkinson's disease. Samoylenko, V.; Rahman, M.; Tekwani, B. L.; Tripathi, L. M.; Wang, Y.; Khan, S. I.; Khan, I. A.; Miller, L. S.; Joshi, V. C.; Muhammad, I. Journal of ethnopharmacology. 10/2009; 127(2):357-67. DOI: 10.1016/j.jep.2009.10.030 DOWNLOAD
 
Well, datura has also been around for ages, so you must consider scopolamine and atropine quite "pure" as well, then.
 
I am inclined to agree about Moclobemide. Its only discernable effect the one time I took 600mg was jitters. I am willing to give it another shot for a week or so, but coming off it, even with a shitload of Selegiline, was unpleasant. Probably the most unpleasant cessation I have experienced since abruptly stopping Reboxetine in 2005.

I am at the point now where I am so dysthymic and lethargic that I am almost definitely going to ask the doc to keep my 15mg/day Selegiline and whack 30mg of tranylcypromine on top.

If the Selegiline is at 15mg, what are the chances of adverse effects when augmenting it with another irreversible MAOI? If the Selegiline is still maintainin' selectivity for MAO type B, I imagine most issues of hypertension and such are minimal?

I have access to a good BP/HR monitor. Was also thinking about getting one of those Fitbit things, because I am led to believe that they can just record your BP and HR and send the data to an application on one's phone or tablet. Would they be accurate? I worry because I ride roughly 40 to 50k a day on my bike, am wanting to ride fulltime as a messenger, and also want to get back to playing high level competitive basketball.

Ideally, if I can coax the psy.doc into it, I'd be on 15mg Selegiline, 30mg Parnate and 30mg dexamphetamine a day. Pretty much a cocktail of amphetamine derivatives, or a secret cult worshipping the PEA molecular skeleton, hehe.

I realllllllllllllly don't wanna start fucking with illicit amphets as I have no real interest in street meth (especially round here) and it is nigh impossible to get street amp around here. I also have a terribly addictive personality and my intelligence and ability to manipulate means I would be able to give off the appearance of a functional person while in the throes of chaos.
Already been through a lot trying to quantify my dependence on cannabis. Don't wanna have to do the same with another drug.

I know the suggested combo above is dangerous. I am also acutely aware that I am a risk to myself and sometimes others when left to self medicate :) Any suggestions would be gratefully received :)
 
Oh, and this is a thought I've had before, but as we don't get any mixed amphets here in AUS, I have often wondered whether the levo amphet metabolites in Selegiline would, when using dexamphetamine to adjunct, give one a feeling comparable to something like Adderall?
 
interesting how you people pick so negatively on moclobemide and defend selegiline as it is better. i have done both and moclobemide actually works, and selegiline is the actual one giving me jitters and making me feel weird. so im questioning if not selegiline being the actual garbage.
 
I never said anything about selegiline. If I were to try an MAOI I would try one of the one I have listed in my thread or harmine.
 
what is your thread? and how do you get harmine, its not sold anywhere. i tried syrian rue which is claimed to contain a good amount of harmine, but to no avail did it do shit!
 
Read this thread with great interest, as I might be your 'ultimate guinea pig', having suffered from chronic, anergic depression for nearly 30 years now, following a head injury. Back then I was just stitched up and sent home, but there is srill a big dent in my skull, across the forward lobes. This depression failed to respond to any AD's at the time, except Parstelin, a long withdrawn MAOI. I was okay until that was denied me by an overly cautious (ignorant) GP, at which point I sank fast, and suffered badly, after turning to alcohol for relief from the misery.... ending up with pancreatitus at 27 which nearly cured me for good! Unfortunately, I lived on, alcohol free I hoped the depression would lift (having naively believed all the encouraging rubbish about 'it's a well known depressant!' and so on). No, plunged into depression again, so tired and weary, I was unable to work or do anything. At this point I had my Epiphany, when I decided to try some speed, bring dealt locally (pretty poor, 10% I'd guess?), but it did the trick, not only symptomatically beating my anergic exhaustion, but also lifting the mental depression. I managed to work, enough to keep myself in speed... just... about a gram a day, self medicating. Unreliable supplies cursed me however, and no medic, shrink or 'expert' would help - or put me back on Parstelin or any MAOI.

It couldn't last forever of course, and when money, speed and hope ran out, I decided to kill myself... but 'caught in the act' was finally sent to an NHS 'rehab outfit'. They couldn't or wouldn't help, but referred me to a Private Clinic, who prescribed me with 100mg Dexedrine a day.... and all went well for 14 years, until the counter price rose from £25/week to £180/week overnight - and that was the end of that. This time the NHS did help, but only prescribed a reducing dose for a year... and that was over long ago. I did try to kill myself this time, rather than face depression again - life really, seriously is NOT worth living in that state - but failed... and of course, as I knew and predicted, I was back to square one, deeply depressed, suicidal, but too wery and unmotivated even to do that.
I have only ever been treated as a 'Junkie' with an amphetamine addiction problem, never as someone who depends on a drug to have any quality of life... and here I am. Four years of pointless misery, half heartedly helped by a GP who I bullied into giving me Nardil (worked, but vile SFX) then Parnate (Trancyclopromine, bearable - but only 3/day way I need at least8/day! - by experiment). And then, this Xmas, just as I was at the point of giving up again, I discovered by sheer chance a source of good quality, affordable street speed, and (like Mad Max?) "Learned to live Again!".

I take it on top of the MAOI (tried one of the new 'safe' ones - no effect at all) Parstelin, after doing it 'clean' for a while, no dangerous or even discernible SFX - blood pressure high anyway, but well under control). I eat anything I want with MAOI's, makes no difference, only started taking them in the hope of reducing my amphetamine requirements... little difference.

Even though I have come back to life with gratitude and relief, the depression (which is untouched by all the 'SSR' rubbish) is still there, like a black dog stalking behind me, but I can outrun it.... for the moment. It is no way to live though, I am now 57 and the years have taken a toll... even though, by some quirk of nature, I still look 40.... when 'medicated' anyway. Something is clearly damaged or missing in my brain, as Ritalin has no effect... unless accompanied by amphetamine, I suppose there is nothing to save from being 'reuptaken'? MDMA worked on me like magic, but of couse, is no way out on a daily basis.

Quite honestly, I do not use drugs 'recreationally' much any more, long ago I felt no thrill or rush from speed in any dose, it just 'lifts' me high enough to stop being low, and that is all I really want. Shrinks seem to regard me with disbelief and fear strangely, I fit no pigeon hole, and 'have all the answers', which they dread.... a patient who knows more about neurology, pharmacology,anatomy and drugs is no 'patient' it seems, it is their worst nightmare! So, no 'legal' help anywhere it seems, not that I can afford... and I am condemned to being a criminal, because I suffer an illness. WEll, so be it!

In case you were curious, yes, there is more than a trace of bitterness here....
 
i h8 maoi's for the same reason i hate all modern anti depressants ... it doesnt solve the problem and it has crappy side effects
 
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