Opioids kratom harm-reduction: how to avoid withdrawals/dependancy

[timsul999]

I think the key is not to binge with this drug; even a two dose/day habit can turn ugly. Last week took a large amount of kratom within a two day span and felt like absolute shit for the next few days, and it wasn't just a typical, relatively benign hangover feeling. This is coming from someone who takes a considerable amount of time, like five days or more, to break in between sessions. I took a fairly normal dose yesterday 6-8 g, and I want to tomorrow but probably won't. For such an humble looking substance it's fucking testy, and there really should be a dedicated thread to harm-reduction: It's just not worth it getting into this stuff without having some prior knowledge on how to handle it safely.
Feel free to post your dosing regimens that work for you (how often, amount) to avoid negative effects from kratom, experiences with wds on how to handle it, etc. and of course everyone's different, so if advice isn't helping you out and you're still suffering, it'd be definitely in your best interest to just stop. i'm starting to wonder if i'm one of those people, heh.

 

[Fresco]

6 to 8 grams is way too much, bro.

With kratom less is better. When I was still using I'd never take more then 3 to 4 grams. Usually exactly 3 grams

 

[Larc]

6-8 grams is a normal dose when I use it. But once a month is tops for me. Using this dose frequently will lead to withdrawals. Never redose and never use for more than two days in a row seems to be the commob reccomendations.

Have you checked out the kratom mega thread timsul999? Every bit of info about kratom, including withdrawals is in that thread.

 

[timsul999]

6 to 8 grams is way too much, bro.

With kratom less is better. When I was still using I'd never take more then 3 to 4 grams. Usually exactly 3 grams

to my knowledge a normal dose is 5 to 10 grams. 3 grams would be right around the threshold of effects, so unless you're doing kratom for the first time that dose is really low.
my guess is you have low tolerance?

6-8 grams is a normal dose when I use it. But once a month is tops for me. Using this dose frequently will lead to withdrawals. Never redose and never use for more than two days in a row seems to be the commob reccomendations.

Have you checked out the kratom mega thread timsul999? Every bit of info about kratom, including withdrawals is in that thread.

thanks for the helpful responses man. i knew that existed but only saw the v1 and assumed it wasn't updated for awhile.

 

[zephyrzone]

Thanks for the new thread timsul999.

I've been lurking for years, and this is my first post, mainly because now I have a reason for one; Kratom.

TL;DR: I'm going through Kratom withdrawl this very moment and am hoping my method, conjured up from various BL content will help with the process, and help others. Tapered down to 2g nightly, after dinner to combat the awful RLS so I can sleep.

Full Story:
I've been 8.5 months sober with the help of a well known program. Long story short, I drank daily for 10 years and heavily for 5. I came to terms with the fact that I'm an alcoholic (or addict, there's no distinction) and sought help from a program that I had no faith would work, but had nowhere else to turn. It worked, and my life so far has turned around completely.

I've had multiple surgeries from living a physical lifestyle and am generally in pain, although not terrible. Also, I always enjoyed opiates (scripts only) as my drug of choice. Had they been readily available, surely I'd be an addict. Never a desire to try the harder stuff. Because of my affinity for opiates (recreationally) and generalized pain, I tried Kratom. WOW. This stuff is a panacea. All the pain disappeared completely and I got that euphoria I enjoy so much, plus energy and relaxation. I tried multiple strains from multiple vendors in varying doses, powdered leaf only, and despite the warnings I dosed daily for 5 months. I actually considered going off of anti-depressants and tossing the Advil.

Unfortunately, my tolerance started to build and my addictive behavior kicked in fairly quickly. Doses eventually got up to around 8-10g x 3 daily. Occasionally more. The quantity and time of use was enough to cause a physical dependance and side-effects I didn't want to live with. Namely adjusting my eating schedule around doses which was a pain in the ass, constipation (literally a pain in the ass) and the worst of it- complete lack of sex drive. If it weren't for a new long term relationship I'm in, I doubt I'd be stopping. But the libido killer is a show stopper for me. Additionally, I have no desire to be a slave to a drug. I did that once before with alcohol and it destroyed my life.

I made a few attempts last month to quit CT, each time I suffered immense fatigue and depression for 2-3 days and couldn't take it anymore so I went back to using. I'd love to keep some Bali around (my fave) for occasional "fun" nights, since I don't do anything else, but that's just not me. I'm an addict, so I abstinence is the only way. I took a huge dose 2 weeks ago and got sick, then decided it was time to pull the plug. I ordered some Phenibut and have a prescription for Klonopin, figuring that would get the job done.

2 weeks ago I went on a sustained dose of Kratom, 6g/2 x daily with no problems. Then dropped to 4g/2 x daily after a week. A little lethargic and minor "blues" but no big deal. 2 days ago I finally jumped and WHOA. For the past 48 hours I've had acute depression, severe fatique- I can barely get off the couch to grab a Pepsi, and the worst is the RLS. For me, the RLS takes over my whole body and sleep just isn't possible. I toss and turn and get up, walk around, shake my arms and legs out and desperately want to sleep but can't. It's incredibly frustrating and pretty awful. I've never been through W/Ds before, not even after quitting alcohol CT. I can't fathom what it must be like on H, this is horribly unpleasant.

I decided to take 2g of Kratom before bed tonight and the symptoms generally disappeared within 30 minutes. So for the next 7 days I plan to continue taking 2g at night. After that, I'm taking 1 gram for 7 days then jumping again.

My questions is: Is it better to not continue the taper for the next 2 weeks and just deal with the w/d for a few days (which sucks ass) or is my taper plan a good one? This is for real and there is no possibility of me increasing the dose, I'm going off. But I'd like to make it as painless and quick as possible. If those are mutually exclusive ideas, which is the better route? I was nearly incapacitated today.

BTW> Over the last 2 weeks I tried a very reputable source of Phenibut in 1g doses at night every other day, but it didn't seem to help. I've been taking 1mg of Klonopin every night for 2 years as a prescription for anxiety (which is the next to go) and it does nothing to help with the RLS. Should I increase it?

Even after all the research I wasn't expecting the withdrawl to hit this hard. It's my fault, but still, it came as a very unwelcome surprise. I feel fine as I type this because the 2g I dosed definitely took the edge off for sure. Right now I'm looking for solid advice on what to do next and what to expect. I hear the symptoms can last from 3 days to 3 months...

I will add that prior to the jump, my taper schedule was working very well. It seems weird to me that 2 grams, on a full stomach no less, can alleviate the w/d symptoms but 0g comes on like a freight train.

-Z

 

[Notgivinup]

Thanks for the new thread timsul999.

I've been lurking for years, and this is my first post, mainly because now I have a reason for one; Kratom.

TL;DR: I'm going through Kratom withdrawl this very moment and am hoping my method, conjured up from various BL content will help with the process, and help others. Tapered down to 2g nightly, after dinner to combat the awful RLS so I can sleep.

Full Story:
I've been 8.5 months sober with the help of a well known program. Long story short, I drank daily for 10 years and heavily for 5. I came to terms with the fact that I'm an alcoholic (or addict, there's no distinction) and sought help from a program that I had no faith would work, but had nowhere else to turn. It worked, and my life so far has turned around completely.

I've had multiple surgeries from living a physical lifestyle and am generally in pain, although not terrible. Also, I always enjoyed opiates (scripts only) as my drug of choice. Had they been readily available, surely I'd be an addict. Never a desire to try the harder stuff. Because of my affinity for opiates (recreationally) and generalized pain, I tried Kratom. WOW. This stuff is a panacea. All the pain disappeared completely and I got that euphoria I enjoy so much, plus energy and relaxation. I tried multiple strains from multiple vendors in varying doses, powdered leaf only, and despite the warnings I dosed daily for 5 months. I actually considered going off of anti-depressants and tossing the Advil.

Unfortunately, my tolerance started to build and my addictive behavior kicked in fairly quickly. Doses eventually got up to around 8-10g x 3 daily. Occasionally more. The quantity and time of use was enough to cause a physical dependance and side-effects I didn't want to live with. Namely adjusting my eating schedule around doses which was a pain in the ass, constipation (literally a pain in the ass) and the worst of it- complete lack of sex drive. If it weren't for a new long term relationship I'm in, I doubt I'd be stopping. But the libido killer is a show stopper for me. Additionally, I have no desire to be a slave to a drug. I did that once before with alcohol and it destroyed my life.

I made a few attempts last month to quit CT, each time I suffered immense fatigue and depression for 2-3 days and couldn't take it anymore so I went back to using. I'd love to keep some Bali around (my fave) for occasional "fun" nights, since I don't do anything else, but that's just not me. I'm an addict, so I abstinence is the only way. I took a huge dose 2 weeks ago and got sick, then decided it was time to pull the plug. I ordered some Phenibut and have a prescription for Klonopin, figuring that would get the job done.

2 weeks ago I went on a sustained dose of Kratom, 6g/2 x daily with no problems. Then dropped to 4g/2 x daily after a week. A little lethargic and minor "blues" but no big deal. 2 days ago I finally jumped and WHOA. For the past 48 hours I've had acute depression, severe fatique- I can barely get off the couch to grab a Pepsi, and the worst is the RLS. For me, the RLS takes over my whole body and sleep just isn't possible. I toss and turn and get up, walk around, shake my arms and legs out and desperately want to sleep but can't. It's incredibly frustrating and pretty awful. I've never been through W/Ds before, not even after quitting alcohol CT. I can't fathom what it must be like on H, this is horribly unpleasant.

I decided to take 2g of Kratom before bed tonight and the symptoms generally disappeared within 30 minutes. So for the next 7 days I plan to continue taking 2g at night. After that, I'm taking 1 gram for 7 days then jumping again.

My questions is: Is it better to not continue the taper for the next 2 weeks and just deal with the w/d for a few days (which sucks ass) or is my taper plan a good one? This is for real and there is no possibility of me increasing the dose, I'm going off. But I'd like to make it as painless and quick as possible. If those are mutually exclusive ideas, which is the better route? I was nearly incapacitated today.

BTW> Over the last 2 weeks I tried a very reputable source of Phenibut in 1g doses at night every other day, but it didn't seem to help. I've been taking 1mg of Klonopin every night for 2 years as a prescription for anxiety (which is the next to go) and it does nothing to help with the RLS. Should I increase it?

Even after all the research I wasn't expecting the withdrawl to hit this hard. It's my fault, but still, it came as a very unwelcome surprise. I feel fine as I type this because the 2g I dosed definitely took the edge off for sure. Right now I'm looking for solid advice on what to do next and what to expect. I hear the symptoms can last from 3 days to 3 months...

I will add that prior to the jump, my taper schedule was working very well. It seems weird to me that 2 grams, on a full stomach no less, can alleviate the w/d symptoms but 0g comes on like a freight train.

-Z

Are you still here? How is it going? I could use some help as I am trying to figure out the best plan for a 5yr. 24 gram a day habit. Went to Stem and vein for two days.Too much anxiety, and depression creeping in. The S&V seems WAY more stimulating which in turn causes ANXiety. I am already prescribed klonapin for anxiety. It's not helping.
I hope someone else jumps in here to help me/you thru this.

 

[Notgivinup]

I am so confused. There are so many different ideas on how to withdrawal from K. I have Lope, I could go that route, I have S&V, I'm trying that right now. Not going so well. I've read this entire thread and many more. K is wicked. 5 yrs.3 unsuccessful tries. One 3 day hospital detox. I could order clonidine, that's another idea. I just need some guidance. My brain fog is terrible right now. Today I've done 6-TSP's S&V. About half an hour ago I couldn'ttake the anxiety and growing depression and did two more level TSP's green malay.Feel much calmer,of course.
This is so un-f-ing believably hard.
Why oh why did I do this to myself, my family,my 8 yr. old.I thought it was harmless too. A little extra energy to keep up with my then 4yr.old. Oh ya it was great at first,did everything it was suppose to. I was like super-mom. Now, well,now, I just do the bare minimum. My regular doses weren't doing it anymore.I knew i had a problem. I feel like such a loser, dumb ass. I'll be damned if my child suffers because of my stupid mistakes.
So sorry for rambling. I just don't know what to do. I need to stop. I need to be a good mommy. I can't be a good mommy in withdrawal.

 

[Fresco]

I am so confused. There are so many different ideas on how to withdrawal from K. I have Lope, I could go that route, I have S&V, I'm trying that right now. Not going so well. I've read this entire thread and many more. K is wicked. 5 yrs.3 unsuccessful tries. One 3 day hospital detox. I could order clonidine, that's another idea. I just need some guidance. My brain fog is terrible right now. Today I've done 6-TSP's S&V. About half an hour ago I couldn'ttake the anxiety and growing depression and did two more level TSP's green malay.Feel much calmer,of course.
This is so un-f-ing believably hard.
Why oh why did I do this to myself, my family,my 8 yr. old.I thought it was harmless too. A little extra energy to keep up with my then 4yr.old. Oh ya it was great at first,did everything it was suppose to. I was like super-mom. Now, well,now, I just do the bare minimum. My regular doses weren't doing it anymore.I knew i had a problem. I feel like such a loser, dumb ass. I'll be damned if my child suffers because of my stupid mistakes.
So sorry for rambling. I just don't know what to do. I need to stop. I need to be a good mommy. I can't be a good mommy in withdrawal

You're being too hard on yourself, chickie.

Try to get off the kratom, and start taking Kava. Kava is non-addictive and helps me a great deal with the PAWS I occasionally suffer from.

Kava also doesnt cause withdrawal symptoms when you go off

 

[《Plasticity》]

Ahh another slave to this wonderful plant. Ive been addicted for two years and i managed to quit once albeit for a short time. I am lucky to have a steady access to tramadol and that helped wonders in reducing my dose rather quick and drastically. Before i get to my taper plan YES op your plan of taking just a small dose to get sleep will work and if ur not ready to kick ct i advise u continue with your plan. Its what i did ant it worked just rememberto stabilize on 2 grams for at least 2 days before dropping to 1.5 grams because that .5 dose can be a big drop when your down to this amount and can hinder sleep rendering you frustrated and end up dosing more to achive sleep than the 2 grams you used before the dose drop. Tapering when down to little amounts can be frustrating because even though your body is used to say 2 grams when trying to kick ct the withdrawals are still pretty uncomfortable so take your time and before u know it you will be down to nothing in no time
My daily dose is two doses of 7.5 grams along with 3 grams throughout the night to stay asleep as im in w/ds like every 5 hours so this leads to me waking up in the middle of the night in w/d.

My taper:
Day 1-125mgs tramadol and 3 grams to sleep
Day 2- 75 mgs tramadol and 3 grams
day 3 -75 mgs tramadol and 3 grams
day 4- 50 mgs tramadol and 3 grams
day 5 - 3 grams
From here on out i lowered my dose by .25 grams every day til i was off

 

[Notgivinup]

Thanks for the reply. I do have a small amount of waka grade kava. Problem is I do not know how much or even how to take it. I mean I know I make it into a tea as it's is in a small baggie, ironically enough provided by the same supplier as my K.
Do I use a tsp. in a cup or more?
Freso I might be being hard on myself but i feel I deserve it for being such a weak ass.I.Cannot.handle.the.depression. I'd rather have my thumb crushed with a hammer than this endless feeling of doom and anxiety.
Can I ask how much and how long you were on it? Someone on here told me I have been doing a large amount and for a long time so of course this is going to be hard.
Thanks for any and all comments and help.
I will be here everyday hoping for some guidance and maybe support.I Pm'd someone, can't remember his/her name right now. But they said a chinese formula called XXwein? (sp) helped them. I can't seem to find it though.

 

[Notgivinup]

Ahh another slave to this wonderful plant. Ive been addicted for two years and i managed to quit once albeit for a short time. I am lucky to have a steady access to tramadol and that helped wonders in reducing my dose rather quick and drastically. Before i get to my taper plan YES op your plan of taking just a small dose to get sleep will work and if ur not ready to kick ct i advise u continue with your plan. Its what i did ant it worked just rememberto stabilize on 2 grams for at least 2 days before dropping to 1.5 grams because that .5 dose can be a big drop when your down to this amount and can hinder sleep rendering you frustrated and end up dosing more to achive sleep than the 2 grams you used before the dose drop. Tapering when down to little amounts can be frustrating because even though your body is used to say 2 grams when trying to kick ct the withdrawals are still pretty uncomfortable so take your time and before u know it you will be down to nothing in no time
My daily dose is two doses of 7.5 grams along with 3 grams throughout the night to stay asleep as im in w/ds like every 5 hours so this leads to me waking up in the middle of the night in w/d.

My taper:
Day 1-125mgs tramadol and 3 grams to sleep
Day 2- 75 mgs tramadol and 3 grams
day 3 -75 mgs tramadol and 3 grams
day 4- 50 mgs tramadol and 3 grams
day 5 - 3 grams
From here on out i lowered my dose by .25 grams every day til i was off

CaptainKratom, I was also considering going to my family doctor to ask for tramadol/ultram for pain and use that like you are.
Then I read how horrible addiction to that med is. Uggggg.I KNOW there will be no easy way out.I just need a way to be able to function and take care of my little boy.No family or friends for support. I have only you guys. I don't even know IF my doctor would give it to me.here in this state the dea is coming down hard on docs.

 

[Fresco]

Freso I might be being hard on myself but i feel I deserve it for being such a weak ass.I.Cannot.handle.the.depression. I'd rather have my thumb crushed with a hammer than this endless feeling of doom and anxiety.

Can I ask how much and how long you were on it? Someone on here told me I have been doing a large amount and for a long time so of course this is going to be hard.
Thanks for any and all comments and help

I was on and off kratom for aboot one year.

You should also look into something called "The Law of Attraction". Its been a complete life-changer for me, I'm much happier in life now and dont feel the need to mask life's hardships with drugs.

And remember the vast majority of depression stems from a lack of self-worth or abuse at some point in your life. This is fixable. Dont let psychiatrists tell you have a chemical imbalance in your brain, this is complete bullshit most of the time

If you want I can post LOA reading material for you

 

[Notgivinup]

Thanks Fresco, but LOA isn't going to do much for me right now. I have seen "The Secret" and already for many months have been doing visualizations where I see myself drug free and happy. I also listen to binaural beats nightly. All of this is good, don't get me wrong but right now my brain has been use to large amounts of K every day for 5 long yrs. I know I have grown extra dopamine receptors. I know why this is so hard for me. I know my dopamine receptors are screaming out for more K. I just don't know how to get out of this. I expect to endure some pain, but at the same time my little boy needs his mommy. I can't be feeling near suicidal depression for god knows how long. I got myself here.I have to pay the piper. If I could I'd ride it out alone in bed for however long it took I would. But I can't. I drive him to school.I pick him up. I take care of my mother who has macular degeneration. I do laundry, help with homework, grocery shop, etc.etc. My husband works a very physically hard job.When he gets home at 6:30, he's dead tired. All of this and more is what contributed to me staying on K for so long. I could do everything, and more. Now, it's turned on me, and I fear getting even deeper than I already am. There will never be a good time for me to quit. Never. I question myself everyday. Maybe I'll stay on for just a few more months, no I am just fooling myself. Sorry, I guess I'm rambling on.I wish we had some family, friends,anyone who could help but we don't. This, Bluelight is all I have right now. I'll be honest.I gave up on the stem and vein, the anxiety was too great. Tomorrow is another day.I'm racking my brain trying to figure out a semi-painless way out. That's why I'm here. I know others have done it. Sorry if I sound like such a whiner. I really am in a desperate situation.

 

[Fresco]

Thanks Fresco, but LOA isn't going to do much for me right now. I have seen "The Secret" and already for many months have been doing visualizations where I see myself drug free and happy. I also listen to binaural beats nightly. All of this is good, don't get me wrong but right now my brain has been use to large amounts of K every day for 5 long yrs

Thats fine. Just go at your own pace. You know your body better then anyone else. You can also try phenibut & GABA combination, they both will also greatly reduce kratom withdrawal.

See my earlier thread: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/540581-The-Kratom-Thread?p=10201928&viewfull=1#post10201928

 

[《Plasticity》]

CaptainKratom, I was also considering going to my family doctor to ask for tramadol/ultram for pain and use that like you are.
Then I read how horrible addiction to that med is. Uggggg.I KNOW there will be no easy way out.I just need a way to be able to function and take care of my little boy.No family or friends for support. I have only you guys. I don't even know IF my doctor would give it to me.here in this state the dea is coming down hard on docs.

While yes tramadol is addicting, addiction tends to build over weeks. A weeks use, especially at the low doses i used will NOT cause withdrawals. If your worried thatt you will like tramadol and replace your kratom addiction I've got two things to say, tramadol is shit and will not cause euphoria at all given ur kratom history. Your using slighlty more kratom than me and i cant feel shit off the stuff but it does wonders for w/d, and another thing is tramadol has a nice halflife so u only have to take a max of dose of 150 mgs... now with that being said if your already down to 3 grams or less, DON'T look for a replacement drug, at least one that stimultaes the mu receptor. Dont do ANY opiates or opioids as it will set your withdrawals back. Just continue dropping your dose and take the kava for anxiety. The way i make kava is take anywhere from 1-3 heaping tbs of kava and put it in a glass, then simply pour milk(kavalactones like fat and it makes a more tasty tea) in the glass and stir really good, let sit for 15-20 mins then strain and drink. To me it doesnt taste too bad but it does have this nylon ropey taste along with the numbing, if u add some sugar it actually tastes good but make sure u strain it good, A T-shirt works fine. Don't give up your almost there, as the days go on your body will readjust trust me.


Edit. And another thing i noticed fresco mentioned phenibut, yes phenibut is like the best thing for kratom withdrawal as it wipes out the anxiety and depression but it is EXTREMELY addictive, imo one of the most addicting substances on earth. I've read people getting withdrawals from as little as 3-4 days use, this stuff is no joke hence why i didn't mention it. A dose regimine must include at least 3 days off for every 1-2 days use or w/d's are a real possibility. Now that i placed my warning i must say it does have its place and if used correctly can be the best thing for your situation, i suggest when you are ready to completely ditch the kratom do so and take phenibut for the next two days and by then u should be pretty much home free. Hope i helped somewhat

 

[Fresco]

Edit. And another thing i noticed fresco mentioned phenibut, yes phenibut is like the best thing for kratom withdrawal as it wipes out the anxiety and depression but it is EXTREMELY addictive, imo one of the most addicting substances on earth. I've read people getting withdrawals from as little as 3-4 days use, this stuff is no joke hence why i didn't mention it.

A dose regimine must include at least 3 days off for every 1-2 days use or w/d's are a real possibility. Now that i placed my warning i must say it does have its place and if used correctly can be the best thing for your situation, i suggest when you are ready to completely ditch the kratom do so and take phenibut for the next two days and by then u should be pretty much home free. Hope i helped somewhat

Thats weird, cause I didnt get any withdrawal from the phenibut.

I guess everybody's different

 

[《Plasticity》]

Oh yeah phenibut can have a real darkside, if you haven't read up on it's addiction potential I strongly suggest you do so. This stuff can have horrendous withdrawals which are said to be nearly identical to ghb withdrawal; seizures, excrutiating anxiety, depersonalization and derealization, along with depression, shakes and other fun stuff. Perhaps some overestimate its addiction potential but i refuse to play "devils advocate" on this one so ill stick to the recomended dosage guidelines. I must say though that about 75%(estimation based on MY exp) of the threads i read about phenibut feel the strong need to warn of its dependance potential so it's pretty common and i'd be surprised if this is the first time your hearing of it's addiction potential fresco. I'm curious as to what your dosing schedule is fresco and i take it that after consecutive use u have taken at least three days to see if u truely are dependant as I've heard the bad withrawals can take days to kick in. I understand theres no real set time that it takes for addiction to set in and everyones chemistry is different but it would be a shame if your dependant amd don't know it as some will take a day or two off and think they're in the clear but in reality never gave enough time for w/d to set in and continue on they're path only to find out when its too late

 

[Fresco]

Oh yeah phenibut can have a real darkside, if you haven't read up on it's addiction potential I strongly suggest you do so. This stuff can have horrendous withdrawals which are said to be nearly identical to ghb withdrawal; seizures, excrutiating anxiety, depersonalization and derealization, along with depression, shakes and other fun stuff. Perhaps some overestimate its addiction potential but i refuse to play "devils advocate" on this one so ill stick to the recomended dosage guidelines.

I must say though that about 75%(estimation based on MY exp) of the threads i read about phenibut feel the strong need to warn of its dependance potential so it's pretty common and i'd be surprised if this is the first time your hearing of it's addiction potential fresco

I havent read many threads of phenibut, and no I didnt know it was as EXTREMELY addictive as you say it is. I suppose it can be habit-forming but to say its extremely addictive sounds to me a bit exaggerated. I certainly didnt get addicted to it

I'm curious as to what your dosing schedule is fresco and i take it that after consecutive use u have taken at least three days to see if u truely are dependant as I've heard the bad withrawals can take days to kick in.

I understand theres no real set time that it takes for addiction to set in and everyones chemistry is different but it would be a shame if your dependant amd don't know it as some will take a day or two off and think they're in the clear but in reality never gave enough time for w/d to set in and continue on they're path only to find out when its too late

In this post I describe how I took it to get off kratom:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/540581-The-Kratom-Thread?p=10201928&viewfull=1#post10201928

For me the worst part of kratom withdrawal is only 4 days or so, after that I'm pretty much better again. So I've never used the phenibut/GABA combination for more then 4 days in a row, and I've never gotten withdrawals from it either

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

I got severe depression when I came off kratom.. but I will admit.. at times I got as high as 20 grams of bali a day.

LESS is MORE with kratom.

Stay strict with yourselves guys!

 

[Notgivinup]

Well I have to say I am more confused and scared as ever.Phenibut sounds great BUT considering my anxiety I fear I will get addicted to it,so for me, it's out. Two level TSP's every two to three hours is roughly how many grams? (forgive me my memory sucks due to stress and klonapin) I know I had an answer to this before.
I'll have to admit until I can come up with a solid plan and get to the doctor I am back to my regular amounts (trying for less, but not able). Last night I was awake in the worst way, rls, burning hot cold sweats, barely any sleep and today I'm a mess, so I just took two level TSP regular green malay. I hate myself, but I can't just wing it.I need a solid written out plan for me.
I was thinking more about the lope. Sounds easy enough, no doctor involved and is fairly cheap to buy. Would anyone be able to recommend a good stool softener to offset the constipation? (sorry TMI) I am always really regular as I consume the fiber in the leaf, not just the tea. I do toss n wash.
Thanks again. I will not give up trying and any help would be appreciated more than you'll ever know.