Opioids New @ IV Drug Use - Have some questions for those who are more experienced...

[ohsee80]

I have been using opiates for quite awhile. Started first with pills (hydrocodone, oxycodone, methadone sometimes) recreational of course. Probably about 5 or 6 months ago I found a BTH source in the area and have been going there to get my goodies (no shit I have found around here compares for the cost to it). I absolutely CANNOT find any white/tan powdered gear anywhere around the south...

Anyway, have been smoking and snorting since I have used it... A week or two ago I started getting it for a friend who moved back from Oregon and he is an IV user. I try to be as clean as possible and after seeing him IV it a few times, I was too curious to resist. I'm not a really skinny guy, not really fat either, just average.. However I cannot see veins too easily, like they dont just protrude from my arm. Obviously I can see the ones in my hands and feet etc. but I have read stuff about how those arent really the best injection sites.

I still snort it and smoke it some because I dont want to habitually, ONLY shoot it, despite how much better it feels and how much more bio-available it is.

I have found the vein on my inner arm I can hit with relative ease and have hit that one maybe 3 or 4 times total (that being the amount of times I have injected probably, as stated before - I'm really new to this).

So I've gone out and gotten clean rigs, alcohol, cotton and such.. I just have a few questions.

So for someone like me, after hitting that spot 3-4 times, should I go back and hit it again? Its not sore or anything, theres slight bruising around it but its not hot or irritated.. But I also dont want to bring it to that point.. Suggestions?

I always use a very clean spoon each time, put the tar in it, put how much water I need and put a lighter under it til the particles begin to separate from the liquid (I dont let it sizzle and burn off because I've heard that it will ruin your shit) , and then put a small piece of q-tip cotton in it and draw it up through the cotton. Is there any other precautions I should take to be cleaner and safer?

Where is other good, easy-to-hit spots that I can rotate to when I cant see my veins as easily and obviously as some other people? (whos veins are like garden hoses and protrude from the skin)

I have hit the vein on my inner left arm a few times, would it be bad if I hit it a few more times giving it like 12 hour breaks?

I would never and have never shared any needles, I have used my 29 gauge 1cc insulin needles up to 3 times max, is that going to somehow fuck me up?

I am not interested in permanently damaging anything, or even temporarily damaging it if it can be avoided Definately dont want any abscesses or infections, please enlighten me Bluelighters!

I know there is harm-reduction information but these questions are more specific to me, I appreciate any responses. Basically mostly wondering about where good injection sites are for someone whos veins are harder to see and any other cleanliness/hygiene steps.



Thanks in advance.

 

[muvolution]

I know you are doing what you think is safe (and it is in relative terms) but there is alot you are doing wrong.

Dont heat the shot. Heroin is 100% soluble in cold water.
Use a micron or sterifilt instead of cotton.
Only use a syringe one time.
Rotate injection sites.

Read through the links in my signature for more information on how to safely iv street drugs.

 

[tricomb]

Beginner's Guide to Heroin.

A few things, as noted by muvolution, it's great that your goal is to safely use your DOC, however you're making some rookie mistakes that need correcting, I'll add to muvolutions list.

1) The spoon- don't use an actual spoon, don't use the bottom of a soda can, the metal can be scratched and gross shit can start to grow in the crevices, use a disposable mixer/cooker

2) The heat- another rookie mistake. Read this, Why don't I apply heat to pharmaceutical opioids and north american heroin. Heroin is freely soluble in cold water, adding heat will only accomplish one thing, and that is melting/dissolving the adulterants/contaminate into solution, where it can wreak havoc on your circulatory system before these particles settle permanently in the fine blood vessels in your lungs, where it can accumulate to the point of pulmonary edema.

NSFW:

Written for opiophile, but decided I'd post it here as well
Introduction & Context
I recently attended a pill injection workshop in Australia, among the people at this workshop, there was a man called Dr. Bruno Raimondo, him and his team are running research into opioid pills such as OxyContin, MSContin and Subutex and the effectiveness of filtering. In the morphine forum I already summarized a document he did, I managed to obtain a copy of the slides he used at the presentation, although he has not released the formal version (which I will link to when he has) of the research, the slides he has emailed me are sufficient for the information people need to know.
Too long didn't read:
Don't heat pills, 2-3ml of water soaking your finely powdered pill, with a 1ml rinse through your filter (SHOULD be using a wheel filter) will give you the best results. Wheel filters are necessity they don't retain any drug (95-99% is let through, cotton filters let through less). Expect health problems down the road if you shoot cotton filtered pills.
Harms of pill injection
Injecting pills (or anything) can result in contaminants entering your body such as insoluble particles or bacteria and fungi. These things can irritate and inflame tissue and veins, cause infections in skin/muscle (granuloma, abscess). They can also result in local and systemic infection from the bacteria/fungi.

Insoluble and undissolved particles can cause microcirculation capillaries (5-10um) to become blocked, they clog up in the heart and lungs. Granulomas in the lungs are caused by inflammation which leads to scar tissue (fibrosis). Congmomerate masses lead to restrictive lung disease and pulmonary hypertension. The particles also reach other organs (liver, kidney etc).

Key particles in pills (OxyContin, MSContin, Subutex)

Other insoluble particles included are:
Magnesium stearate (5-30um)
Titanium dioxide (100um clumps) (ms, oxy)
Other particles that change form in heat are:
Stearyl alcohol MP is 59*C (ms, oxy)
Eudragit RS 30D clumps at >30*C (oxy)

All these particles cause problems in your heart, lungs and other organs, the chemicals that change form in heart are the reasons why pills should NOT be heated, and you will soon find out there is no advantage to heating.

Why pills shouldn't be heated

As you can see, of these images under a microscope, heating pill solutions cause enourmous particles to dissolve in the mix. These particles will pass through the filter (wheel or cotton) and recongeal, precipitating out in your filtered mix or veins.

Ok so I shouldn't heat, what about Rollie cigarette filter filtering (or cotton).

For comparison: MSContin rollies reduce particles >5um by 60%.

What about the drug retained?

For subutex 97% of the drug is returned in this process.
Drug is not retained in the filter after this, even if the filter is wet.
.
Wheel filters (and why they rock!)
Here is the solution of two pills under a microscope before and after wheel filtering

But how many particles are removed by the wheel filters?

But what about drug recovery

For subutex drug recovery is 99%
*Note: One of the researches reminded me to say that when they first did these tests, their technique with wheel filters was poor, and that morphine recovery is more like 95-99%

So as you can see, using wheel filters removes all the particles that cause harm (basically), with a rinse of water after first filter, you can retain 95-99% of the drug (better then a cotton/rollie filter) while removing 99% of the particles that cause harm, and heating is generally a bad idea that does NOT help at all, and does more harm then good.
Note: Hand rolled cigarette filters filter to about 50um.

Another document for the national drug safety council, which focused mainly on morphine and wheel filters, also contains a lot of information. It is located here.

I also posted this in Australian drug discussion but was told to also post it here.

3) The filter- You should use a micron filter if you want to prevent the contaminate from clogging up your circulatory system and lungs. Absolutely CRITICAL to the injection process, if you aren't equipped to filter your solution properly, there's no way in hell you're ready to administer an intravenous solution. If you can't obtain a micron filter, the next best thing is the compacted sterile cotton/Sterifilt/sterifit's handed out at the needle exchange. Micron filters can be purchased online via simple google search. They look like this

4) Why you don't re-use needles, ever:

Using a needle 3 times is going to lead to your veins collapsing sooner rather than later. Insulin needles are supposed to be disposed of after ONE use.

5) Source of water. Read this thread.

 

[ohsee80]

I appreciate your comments so much, you have probably saved me considerably!

 

[tricomb]

^Make sure to check all the links in my post! And I know you're not shooting pills but the part I included addresses why heat is not a good idea, it's a good visual aid.

 

[Znegative]

Also, you may want to check out Injection; IV complications and Info. This is also listed in Muvolution's signiture, but it's a great resource.

You defiantely do want to rotate injection sites, especially with black tar heroin which depending on the quality can be really hard on the vein. You probably should also invest in a micron filter to aid in getting some of that cut out as well. If you keep using the same vein over and over, repeated injections can lead to the swelling of the inner lining of the vein, causing it to close up and stop circulation (also known as phlebitis). When you rotate your shots you decrease the likeliness of this happening. Also, another obvious but wise practice is to make sure to use a clean syringe everytime, though I shouldn't have to tell you that after the pictures Tricomb posted.

 

[i against i]

i recommend getting a proper medical tourniquet as well, one with a button for quick release, once registered, you should release the tourniquet (with a medical one, i push the button with my chin) before pushing down the plunger.

 

[tricomb]

^Great advice! If you need a tourniquet to shoot up, definitely release it before you push off.

 

[Znegative]

Yep, keeping that thing can, in a worst case scenario, lead to b,owing out veins. I've been there and done that, and let me tell you, it ain't pretty. Eventually I learned how to fix without a tie, but always make sure it's loosened before registering again and injecting.

Also, im not sure if this has been mentioned, but a really helpful technique is to create a vacuum in the syringe by pulling back on the plunger before you've hit the vein, but after the syringe is in the flesh. Pulling back creates the vacuum, and as you push the syringe around, the second you hit the vein, blood will flood up the neck of the barrel. You should still not go diggin around with a needle as that's a good way of accidentally hitting a nerve or an artery, but this technique is really benificial for veins that roll, or are decievingly hard to hit.

 

[xxxyyy]

i'll jump in and say that needles really shouldn't be reused at all. it's a bit less dramatic with syringes, as long as they're not lying around for extended periods of time (i usually throw them out after an hour or two) but reusing needles, apart from being painful, is also really shitty for your veins.

 

[SethTheBest]

Ok, Ohsee. I'm a four year needle user. Alot of people will tell you ohh dont use this dont do that. But in actuality, the biggest thing is rotating your needle injection locations. Try using your hands, or in your forearm, just tie a tight tie around it and wait a few seconds. Usually though you should be able to shoot where everyone shoots in the crease in your arm above your elbow (forget what its called lol). Even if you dont see the veins there. The way you tell if your in a vein or not, is if you draw back (pull back on the needle) and draw up blood. If you do, your in and good to go. If you get air, DO NOT SHOOT. You dont really have to worry about what needle, or what spoon etc. Just clean wipe it with an alcohol swab (you dont even need to do that, but I recommend it). I know everyones gonna give me shit. But, the whole heat thing? Look, some times h is fine to just put in water... but most times not... What you SHOULD do is place your h in your spoon. Add water, heat the thin til the first bubble comes up. Then stir it with the back of your syringe till everything dissolves. Then a nice little trick all those no lighter users dont know, is then once everything is all dissolved, put the flame back on the spoon just really quickly, like 10 seconds, and you'll see a bunch of crap float to the middle. (Thats the shit you dont want in your veins) Now put your cotton in (any cotton works, just be sure to put it in your mouth and chew on it a couple of times, this reduces the chances of cotton fever, after chewing roll it into a ball) I like putting my cotton on my neddle then putting it in the liquid. And there you go, you should have the residue on the spoon and a good shot. And if anyone says your burning off shit, your not if you just warm it, and trust me ive done this everyday for four years, 4 times a day. Ive tried both ways and this is the best.

I will warn you, shooting quickly goes down hill. After doing it for a little bit, no other opiates seem to work as good and very soon your body will become addicted. But I know that I can not say anything to change an addicts mind. So just best wishes be safe, and always shoot a little bit, check how your doing, then a little more. Dont do anymore if you feel pins and needles brother.

-Seth

 

[xxxyyy]

i've had some pretty fucking unsafe IV practices, it's just even before they cut a large chunk of abscess out of my thigh, i didn't go around advertising them.
also, for the love of fuck, never, ever have anything you're injecting come into contact with saliva. of all the shit ideas i've heard that is one of the top three.

edit: also if microns for some reason are out of the question, i'd suggest using cig filters instead of the cotton. this is just my subjective experience, but the solution i produce with them usually looks clearer.

 

[Coraline]

Don't chew the cotton then inject with it.

Mouths are full of all kind of bacteria that has no business being under the skin, in your veins, resting and festering in your muscles. This is how you get heart valve diseases, abscesses, and become septic.

Please don't do this. It just takes one time to get a massive infection.

 

[Znegative]

edit: also if microns for some reason are out of the question, i'd suggest using cig filters instead of the cotton. this is just my subjective experience, but the solution i produce with them usually looks clearer.

just so you know this is not true.

 

[the_ketaman]

You are supposed to use rollie cig filters if mics are out of the question as some normal cig filters contain trace amounts of fibreglass that is not at all good for yours circulatory system. It is true that a piece of rollie cig filter will filter your solution better than a tiny piece of cotton, it is not true that using cig filters or cotton in any way will come close to what a micron filter will do for your health. Anything less that a mic filter is not enough when using pills and even some street drugs.

I shot oxy with cotton for a few years and am suffering the consequences of it now. I have "Pharma-Frostbite" or clogged capillaries in my extremities which causes my hands to be always freezing, I believe there is also a lot of damage that I dont know about yet(so far I can still get it up fine but im worried about when I get older ). This "Pharma-frostbite" came on quite awhile after I stopped injecting oxy and has gotten worse, its especially bad in winter. I do believe it is reversible to an extent though as I only shoot H and meth these days and if I ever shoot a pill it gets micron filtered and for this along with good diet, minimal cigerette smoking and excercise my body seem to be healing.

If your going to shoot opiates just shoot heroin. Thats where im at, even here in Australia where both opiate pills and heroin are quite expensive(though I used to get oxy 80's, xanax 2mg and ritalin for a fraction of the price of what people pay now days which is why I became so addicted at such a young age) I choose heroin because its still pretty pure here, it feels better than shooting most pills(morphine is close! Never done hydromorph unfortunately) and id honestly get more out of a point of H that I would for an oxy80 and they both cost about the same on the street. If I banged an oxy id maybe get a little glow for a few hours and it'd be done, if I bang a point of H im nodding for 10+ hours! Heroin is THE opiate!

 

[Znegative]

How do you know your ailments were the result of using a cotton, rather than a Rollie filter, when neither are sufficient at filtering out the majority of pill binders that are the real cause of your condition (which I'm sorry to hear about btw.)

 

[ohsee80]

Yeah Ill probably fire some shit off here in a little bit. I have a pretty good tolerance and I cant really afford to nod all day.

This is going to be a new topic for discussion now..... About heating your dope. New thread in the making..

 

[ohsee80]

And what does pins and needles mean man?

 

['medicine cabinet']

the feeling you get from morphine or heroin that has unreacted morphine and 3mam (yea?) it produces a strong kind of burning sensation that feels like tiny pins and needles. i would always feel it in my face, then hands, then feet. Some ppl love the feeling while others dont.

 

[ohsee80]

Oh, he made it sound like pins and needles = danger in some way