Are there honestly any worthwhile Research Chemicals?

[Halif]

3-meo-pcp was interesting and good times for me. I'd imagine more crazy making than MXE if you didn't have the right set/setting.

Yes, 3-MeO-PCP is one of the best things (RC or otherwise) I've ever tried, and yes it can push you over into frightening territory much faster than MXE. Taking a bit too much (far too much, in my case) is like being on a beach in the tropics, wading out into beautiful crystal blue water, a light warm breeze touching your body, feeling about as good as you've ever felt in your life - and then taking one more step and discovering that the shoreline suddenly drops off. The water depth goes from 50 centimetres to 5 miles and you sink down like a rock, that clear blue water becoming black and impossibly dense, suffocating.

The combination of MXE and 3-MeO-PCP is in my top three best experience-makers. That combo has been a winner a dozen times or so for me. I felt great. I got some amazing insights which remain with me. But twice I've nearly cracked on it in a way I have never come close to on anything else. One of those times in particular was the single scariest experience I've ever had in my life. No exceptions. I was very irresponsible and nearly paid for it with my sanity. It came about after a day of smoking a-PVP and sniffing unmeasured lines of MXE mixed with 3-MeO-PCP. Yes, I was extremely stupid, and yes, I am extremely fortunate to be here and relatively together. All I have left in the way of memories of that incident is fragments:

-sitting at the computer happily listening to music and suddenly feeling my personality divide into several parts which began to speak all at once. You know the voices in your head (yes, everyone has them) which are always there saying inane things like "I'm hungry", and "I can't be bothered going to work today", and whatnot? Those voices. Except that now they were OUTSIDE of my head and speaking as if they were people in the room. Very surreal. My aspects began speaking to each other, some calming down the others that were freaking out. Basically, I ceased to exist as a single entity and became an observer to this room full of 'me's who were all yammering away. (Not a great start to an evening, non?)

-suddenly coming to in the backyard, standing in the rain in the dark, shaking, with no reference points (dreaming? dying? who am I? where am I? have I done something wrong? am I in danger?)

-slumped at the kitchen counter shaking uncontrollably, with pills (blue ones, white ones, pink ones - who knew I had so many?) and baggies everywhere, my 'box of tricks' upended, trying to cram clonazepam into my mouth to avoid the full psychotic break which I felt was now inevitable. (I also rubbed some clonaz into my left eye for some reason. It's nice and minty when it's under your tongue, but nasty and stingy in your eye).

-standing in front of the bathroom sink, a metallic, minty taste in my mouth, my eye stinging, utterly confused and fragmented, thinking that I must have ingested some poison somehow (had completely forgotten about the clonaz, of course, and everything else I'd taken that day), trying to scoop water from the tap into my mouth to wash it out, sticking my fingers down my throat

After that I don't remember much. Not surprising considering I chowed down on clonazepam like TicTacs. Amazingly, incredibly, miraculously, I seem to be still basically the same person as before. No more or less crazy that I can detect. I mean, I've had 'brain' issues since my teens and have pushed the boundaries many times going on and off meds and taking all kinds of stuff in a reckless fashion, but I really am surprised to have come back after that. I think I very narrowly dodged a scary big bullet. Now it's time to have a break (the good type, not the psycho one), be good to myself and become once again deserving of the gift of mental stability which I have foolishly taken for granted. Bye bye BlueLight for a while.

Anyway, the point of this little story is that there ARE some worthwhile new substances getting around, and they need to be understood ('researched', if you will) well and treated with respect. I still think that 3-MeO-PCP and MXE are amazing, and have genuine capacity for growth and healing.

3-MeO-PCP is very potent stuff. Does the world really need 3-HO-PCP?

 

[Coolio]

I am first to admit that I am old school. I was raised on a diet of cannabis, MDMA, lsd, mushrooms and speed (with the odd bit of ketamine thrown in to lift the mood). When 2CB first entered my life it was some what of a novelty. A subtle miss match of MDMA and acid. After that, a steady flow of 2C alphabets came along, but each one never really matched the original chemicals. Each one has a slight difference but had side effects that were brushed over because it was "better than nothing".

I disagree totally. RCs have quickly obsoleted the old school drugs of choice. If you hold the originals up as ideal standards then the RCs cannot compare. I've come to realize that the originals weren't that great to begin with, they were just "better than nothing". The notion of 'counterparts' makes little sense when discussing RCs. They aren't meant as replacements for anything, but simply new styles/genres of recreational or functional high.

Your example is the only good one I could think of to back up your argument. Ketamine is still the only really amazing dissociative anaesthetic around. MXE is not an alternative or counterpart at all, it's a completely different type of experience which is not nearly as interesting.

There's a lot of magic to be found in the following RCs, which provide experiences as qualitatively superior to the lame RCs as your LSD, MDMA, cannabis, speed, etc. experiences were:

DOC (When you want a 2 day trip)
Methylone (When you want to roll face and have a blast around sober people or people who you don't want to be on MDMA around)
2C-T-7 (When you want to experience the ultimate in kaleidoscopic, persistent visuals discovered so far)
AMT (Why take speed and redose 3 times on mushrooms when you can take the much friendlier AMT which combines all of the best effects of shrooms and meth with minimal side effects)
25D-NBOMe (Ever want a DOC-like candyflippy type experience with no mindfuck, that leaves you sober just 3-5 hours later? Shrooms won't beat this)
etizolam (Ever wish Xanax was actually EUPHORIC? Almost like a barbiturate? Well, that's what etizolam is)
Mephedrone (Ever wish cocaine wasn't so lame? Mephedrone is a loved up drop in replacement for cocaine/crack with less side effects and way more euphoria)
4-HO-DIPT (Sometimes shrooms are a bit too wavy and harsh and serious and lacking in euphoria. 4-HO-DIPT is like shrooms with euphoria and nystagmus)
2-FA (This is supposedly in direct competition with Adderall for effective treatment of ADD through enhancement of focus and concentration, but unlike Adderall there's no nationwide shortage)
JWH-018 (If you're a daily toker, with a tolerance, JWH-018 is not so unpredictable. It's better than medical cannabis for many, many symptoms that real cannabis is useful for treating. JWH-018 has all the analgesia and sedation of indica hashish and all the energetic creativity of expertly crafted high THC sativa kief. Best of both worlds unlike any single strain of cannabis)
CP 55,940 (The methadone of cannabinoids. One of the most potent by weight, and longest lasting per dose, it's an economical way to maintain a 24/7 stoned lifestyle)

There are others more rare that I can't comment on as I don't have the experience to say how superior they are to illegal/oldschool drugs like I do with the above mentioned compounds.

 

[Busty St Clare]

I guess it comes down to preference coolio. I would never consider DOC to be anything more than a very poor adulterant to nice clean lsd. Duration aside (I would never want to trip for longer than 12 hours personally), I have found these trips to be considerably more heavy when it comes to body load and feel that the type of journey you have on lsd a lot more calm and enjoyable. I have a fair bit of experience with both methylone and mephedrone and personally would take clean MDMA or cocaine over either of them. There are so many JWH-x out there that I am sure I may one day enjoy one but I always find them to be to much of a mind fuck and leave a dirty "metallic" feeling in my brain. I'm sorry but I would still prefer natural weed in my experience.

I have heard nice things about 25d-NBOMe so perhaps I might find something worthwhile eventually, so I haven't given up complete faith in science. My personal hope with future drug research would be not so much the drugs themselves but perhaps the development of recovery drugs. Supplements that restore seretonin or dopamine would be a breakthrough that would perhaps take some of our existing drugs and improve them. The ability to reverse some of the damage and avoid a comedown is something worth investigating.

 

[CrayZ]

... My personal hope with future drug research would be not so much the drugs themselves but perhaps the development of recovery drugs. Supplements that restore seretonin or dopamine would be a breakthrough that would perhaps take some of our existing drugs and improve them. The ability to reverse some of the damage and avoid a comedown is something worth investigating.

Yes please. Receptor upgraders - bring it on.

 

[Coolio]

My personal hope with future drug research would be not so much the drugs themselves but perhaps the development of recovery drugs. Supplements that restore seretonin or dopamine would be a breakthrough that would perhaps take some of our existing drugs and improve them. The ability to reverse some of the damage and avoid a comedown is something worth investigating.

There are a lot of great recovery drugs out there like silymarin, resveratrol, bacopa, rhodiola, DMAE, Vitamin C, idebenone, green tea extract, L-arginine, DHA/EPA, magnesium citrate, curcumin, niacinamide, (R)-potassium alpha lipoic acid... try preloading and postloading with that entire regimen and you'll feel a lot less body load than ever before.

 

[BongoBongo]

There are a lot of great recovery drugs out there like silymarin, resveratrol, bacopa, rhodiola, DMAE, Vitamin C, idebenone, green tea extract, L-arginine, DHA/EPA, magnesium citrate, curcumin, niacinamide, (R)-potassium alpha lipoic acid... try preloading and postloading with that entire regimen and you'll feel a lot less body load than ever before.

...and the wonderful 5-HTP too!

 

[Biscuit]

That is all very well and good Coolio, but trying to get access to all of those things is next to impossible these days. I can only imagine what people in the UK can do. Obtain a nice little stockpile of pretty much anything that takes their fancy, and end up with something resembling a kitchen spice rack. And the vast majority of the contents in the said rack are completely legal. Once RC's became difficult to obtain they ended up being no different than the illicits and so you have found yourself back with your average dealer because it is easier.

6-APB & 5-APB are excellent!! one of my favourite experiences on a substance is the first time I tried 6-APB, Ive never felt such euphoria from ANYTHING.

I agree entirely. What makes me so interested in this compound is that people liken it to MDMA but the reality is it is very much like MDA. Which is not surprising as MDA is its MDXX chemical equivalent. Now what I really want someone to come up with is the N-methyl version of 6-APB, which would be the MDMA equivalent and see how that goes. I suspect it might be very close to the original indeed and very exciting!

 

[Cornishman]

Are there any RCs that come close to the euphoria/rush of IV'd cocaine hcl?

 

[Coolio]

That is all very well and good Coolio, but trying to get access to all of those things is next to impossible these days.

Uh? What? They're all over the counter, you can buy them off ******.*** or *******.*** or whatever...

 

[Verybuffed]

Where did my post go?

There was no breach of the BLUA. I am quite puzzled.

 

[smokedup]

All are over the counter and for sale online, very easy to obtain, I would suggest to bulk buy over an American nutrition/supplement site to reduce the impact of postage on your hip pocket. America has a much more competitive supplement market with prices dirt cheap if you mass buy

 

[junkie skumbag]

MXE and the 2C family are goodins 4-mar if thats classed as a RC

 

[Thou]

I am first to admit that I am old school. I was raised on a diet of cannabis, MDMA, lsd, mushrooms and speed (with the odd bit of ketamine thrown in to lift the mood). When 2CB first entered my life it was some what of a novelty. A subtle miss match of MDMA and acid. After that, a steady flow of 2C alphabets came along, but each one never really matched the original chemicals. Each one has a slight difference but had side effects that were brushed over because it was "better than nothing".

Then more RC's started to enter the scene. To begin with they were legal so it made sense to get excited about them, but they still all lacked the same magic of their original counterpart. The high didn't last as long, or too long, they has a nasty comedown or body load or some were/are so unpredictable that one night they can be awesome, then the next time a nightmare (I'm looking at you JWHx).

While they were legal it was easier to ignore the disappointment, but now that most loop holes are shut are there any of these new compounds worth the effort? If given the choice between ketamine and MXE for example, who would still choose the latter? Have I miss something or are the stream of new drugs coming onto the market just a poor imitation of the originals?

I'm a ketamine fanatic but it's duration makes it too morish to be functional, when used for spirtuality as these days is what I tend to use psychs for exclusively. Ketamine is a touch more euphoric but you don't LEARN anything from that side of it really, the recreation typically, it's the other side of psychs where the education comes in.

So for one example, mine, here you will find an individual who would rather spend his money on methoxetamine a drug with a perfection duration of 2.5 hours as opposed to 45 minutes for K or 4-5 hours + nasty side effects for dxm.

Completely subjective though, and this is regardless of legal status or price.

The methoxlyated pcp analogs I don't plan on touching with a ten foot poll though. Maybe a memantine derivate. 4homemantine. IDK I suck at chemical masturbation.

As for everything shulgin created?

I think I'd rather have 31 Flavors of Classic Rice-A-Roni than 1. Variety is the spice of life (no pun intended, although Carlin reference was.)

Plus your drug laws our far harsher and customs is far tighter in your country, Holde...

 

[junkie skumbag]

I'm a ketamine fanatic but it's duration makes it too morish to be functional, when used for spirtuality as these days is what I tend to use psychs for exclusively. Ketamine is a touch more euphoric but you don't LEARN anything from that side of it really, the recreation typically, it's the other side of psychs where the education comes in.

So for one example, mine, here you will find an individual who would rather spend his money on methoxetamine a drug with a perfection duration of 2.5 hours as opposed to 45 minutes for K or 4-5 hours + nasty side effects for dxm.

Completely subjective though, and this is regardless of legal status or price.

The methoxlyated pcp analogs I don't plan on touching with a ten foot poll though. Maybe a memantine derivate. 4homemantine. IDK I suck at chemical masturbation.

As for everything shulgin created?

I think I'd rather have 31 Flavors of Classic Rice-A-Roni than 1. Variety is the spice of life (no pun intended, although Carlin reference was.)

Plus your drug laws our far harsher and customs is far tighter in your country, Holde...

MXE has wayyy more insightful thoughts than K does...like i get the kinda same thoughts i do when i've dosed a shitload of lsd when im M-holing u should try IM'ing your ket it works much much better than up the nose.way more intense and euphoric

 

[jones-in_J]

Ive been using 10mg of mxe snorted per day to lift my mood while taking suboxone and will continue to do so through my week long taper

People here use doses waaaaay higber then what i personally find enjoyable but to each his own

I find the effects to be mild but fucking great though. Especially for opiate withdrawal its soooooo fucking useful

 

[Thou]

MXE has wayyy more insightful thoughts than K does...like i get the kinda same thoughts i do when i've dosed a shitload of lsd when im M-holing u should try IM'ing your ket it works much much better than up the nose.way more intense and euphoric

Trying taking it with other psychedelics.

7mg insufflated 2cp and various 20mg bumps every hour or of MXE.

The only use I ever found for 2cp, and any other phenethylamine I'm sure would have done a better job. Mescaline would be lovely.


This is ironic in the sense that I'm leaning more and more towards natural things, plants, gods creations, devoid of human distillation.

Do we know of any natural NMDA antagonists though the likes of which mxe could be produced? I'd love to introduce it into an agar dish of mycelium and see what nature does with it.

Any chemists/botanists/mycologists care to chime in on this one? I believe it will hydroxylate it. 4 ho mxe. Is that even possible? We've made cool tryptamines this way, but they resemble one another. It was, however Shulgin himself that said it would hydrolxylate or whatever the proper term is anything you gave it, with some silly example like a tablecloth or a sweatervest.

4 ho sweatervest.

 

[laugh]

seriously keen to try amt have never heard of it or seen it in australia though

 

[westy]

4-aco-dmt, synthetic psilocybin, lab made shrooms, only rc i know that surpasses what it was made to mimic

 

[Azron]

Just a thought, What if bk-mdma was the only mdma known and now mdma had come out recently as a RC. May one think MDMA is to powerful to be safe and opt for the well known bk version?

 

[Halif]

I'll second that notion, westy.

I have massive respect for mushrooms, but 4-AcO-DMT brings the same power in a way that I can work with and understand.

Mushrooms leave me in awe (awe = fear and wonder) and make me feel like a little lost tourist in an incredible alien landscape, whereas 4-aces makes me feel like I am the focal test subject in a benign cosmic medical centre where everyone really wants me to reach my full potential.

I mean, the potential for practical insight and deep healing is immense. 4-AcO-DMT reminds me of what it means to be a human; emotions, painful and beautiful; respect for the ever-changing existence-stream; desire to be more complete as a person.

Every experience I've had with it has left me thinking about how I could be better to myself and those around me.

It reminds me that I love life deeply. The reason I get stressed out is because I care about us all.