[MEGA]Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion- 2nd Toke

[OTGee]

Ive nearly finished 20 grams of a ridiculously strong blend I bought from someone online. Crazy shit, pretty bad stomach problems, heard of some people getting irratable bow syndrome from synths? Just made 7 - 10 grams (Shit scales) of pure am-2201 (300mg's). Pretty weak mix but decent, really want to cut down a bit now. Defiantley addicted to smoking it, if not physically I just cant seem to stop myself smoking this shit all day every day. I really need to cut down asap before it gets worse.

Really interested in trying UR-144 or something else, tired of my 2201/2233/694.

 

[the toad]

I've been having GI issues too... never during the day but at night once I fall asleep I wake about 2 hours later in a cold sweat and shaking, puke... then feel fine and go back to bed... I tried popping some tums before bed and no help there... so I tried some prilosec tablets and they didn't help either.... I guess its time to quit... its not that great anyways...just kinda makes me tired when i smoke it... and crave it and get sick when I don't lol... kinda pointless... nothing cerebral like good herb....

 

[Enix150]

Insane are you referring to a specific blend? or has this been the case with all cannabinoids? I particularly noticed these side effects (loss of appetite, depression, worsened IBS symptoms) with stronger ones like AM-2201... But it got me thinking.

Cannabis never causes these issues, but perhaps this is due to the presence of other cannabinoids acting as partial antagonists? Along this line of thinking, I began adding WIN 48,098 (a weak partial agonist) to the 2201 blend and cravings all but subsided within the week. Now I try to be alot more careful with the stronger ones, especially full agonists.

On a related note, it seems that JWH-200 possesses similar medicinally beneficial properties, but retains some activity on its own... perhaps this is because it is water soluble? and possibly wouldn't permeate the same areas that a lipophilic cannabinoid might? This warrants further research.

 

[ms4104]

I have been a daily Kronic smoker for approx the past 6 months and just wanted to warn everyone of the side effects that I have received from smoking Kronic. I have decided to speak out after talking to a friend who has experienced the identical side effects as me and feel this could be of benefit to someone just starting. DON'T DO IT!

Over the past few months I have lost my appetite completely (I can go days on end without a single mouthful of food), I am extremely emotional to the point of bursting into tears everytime I speak, I have been experiencing really bad spasms in my stomach & chest which feels like someone is blowing up a balloon in there, I have experienced the feeling of things crawling under my skin (which is normally associated with Meth use and I do not use), I have trouble focusing properly and if I look somewhere quickly it takes me a bit longer to focus and gives me a head spin which is not too good when you are driving, I wake up coughing and vomiting daily and feel 24/7 like I want to be sick.

Dude hwen I was smoking high doses (very fucking high) of pure JWH 210 I had the same side ffects really bad. The craziest was loss of appetite no matter if i was smoking or not. It was a chore to eat it was insane. But I had a tightened chest spasms and shit emotions up and down withdrawals would come on in like 12 hours afte rI smoked.

I did quit/detox once before by tapering down first. The withdrawal was bearable the worst part was cold sweats like with opiate withdrawal but my appetite came back in like 5 days by 10 days I felt 100%. It was weird though like for DAYS after I smoked I felt like permastoned id wake up feeling high. And I still have diahreah and headaches 2 things I never had before detoxing off this shit.

I notice that if I only smoke a .3g blunt per day (of a commercial blend like head trip or voodoo doll) I dont get these side effects. I was smoking so much JWH bc my tolerance went through the ROOF from making stronger and stronger blends when I was making them my self. Eventually I had 250mg jwh210 per 1 gram damiana. Thats when the bad side effects came. And I would smoke a few G's a day so sometimes id consume a whole gram of jwh in a day. It sounds crazy but I kept increasing the blend for that hard hittin ghigh which is the biggest mistake you can make. I get just as high if not higher now on probably less than a 20mg dose just by keeping my use in check

Keeping your dose down is whats important because this shits already like 100x sdtronger than weed. If you start doing high doses you WILL get withdrawals without a doubt.

Seriously synthetic cannabinoids are the dumbest drug to smoke. God knows how much damage I did to my brain or body...shit is not weed, its totally different. WHo knows how many of us will get like cancer or somethin lol.

The addiction aspect

One thing I noticed is that jwh/s or am's are like the crack of weed. Often times people end up redosing ever like 30 minutes or 15 minutes..and its like taking hits of crack all day lol. One thing I can say though is that in my experience these cannabinoids are not addictive. They are habit forming and make you compulsive..but as soon as I quit I really had no urges to smoke again once I was through withdrawals..

Cigarettes and heroin are totally differnet..it like rewires your brain, you think about that shit hard core and crave it like crazy. The synthetic shit its a matter of breaking your dependency/habit more than an addiction IMO.

 

[the toad]

I was smoking like 6 grams a day of the potent stuff... pure evil, diablo, purple diesel... today I seriously cut back and have only smoked a couple grams all day... and it was slightly mixed... I had to keep telling myself to wait a while longer for another toke and was slightly "off feeling"... kinda clumsy and "heavy in my movements"... but all in all I felt better mentally... I was smoking somuch before id just pass out... today I felt better and ate more... well see how tonight goes... hopefully no puking... fingers crossed lol

 

[ms4104]

I only puked for like the peak of my withdrawal which was like 30 hours in..Last time I detoxed from synthetic cannabinoids what I used most was NA meetings honestly. myh body temp was fucked like cold sweats and I was crying/panicing a lot.. but the withdrawals get through quickly like only a week depending how much you used..and I was a heavy user.. about 1-2 days in thoguh I REALLY felt shitty. I feel bad for the 16 year old kid who starts smoking this shit until they are like 25 and have some insane deadly withdrawals.

6g a day is a LOT.

 

[Enix150]

Have you considered other methods of staving the craving? Some friends of mine have tried eating it to taper off.. This extended release might help if it's a chemical thing (downregulation). Or do you think that it's more of a compulsion? In this case I would recommend making yourself a weak/low dosage blend and having all you want without increasing the concentration (or you could just try keeping AM-2201/JWH-210 to a once-in-a-while kind of thing). This may slow or even halt progression, but the only permanent way to fix compulsions is through denying them and reinforcing the right neuropathways.

So which of the above would be the smoothest but still decent duration?

JWH-122 is potent yet unintrusive and lasts a little longer (but not too long as with 210).

I like AM-2201's high vaporized, but the taste is AWFUL. Reminds me of bleach for some reason, perhaps just because I know it's a chlorinated indole.

fluorinated. so maybe it should smell like freon?

 

[the toad]

Ok so after having a day of about 2grams of spice instead of 6, I found it produced both a more enjoyable high during the day, as well as no puking or cold sweats or anything at night

There's hope after all lol

 

[Enix150]

Glad to hear it!! There is always hope my friend. Is your average dosage similar for the different blends then? I haven't risked buying premade blends in a long time so I sometimes wonder what they're like nowadays. Mystery spices yield too many side effects; pure chems get my endorsement!

but to quickly answer your question - no, i hate synthetic cannabinoids. i think they're rubbish. they're nothing on the real thing, and they're dangerous untested toxins.

Yeah, these full body tingles are much more apparent with all synthetic cannabis, as there are many unregistered toxins that actually cause your muscle tissues to have microscopic spasms. There was an article I read a while ago about it, but im not sure where from- but if you could find it im sure it would be interesting.

What exactly are toxins? Adulterants may be toxic, but the cannabinoids themselves are more likely to be neuroprotective than toxic... I would be curious to read that article if you could find it!

hi there i have heard about am-2201 being somehow similarly toxic as am-694, because of F-HAc being one of its metabolites.
since this is the part of the forum labeled harm reduction i think this thread belongs here, please move if it doesnt.

i think am-2201 is probably a clear member of the dont do list. since F-HAc kills..... although i cant find proof of it being a metabolite of am-2201.
please let me know if this is a chem that has toxic metabolites if you know about it and read this. thank you.

I've heard this brought up before and the general consensus was that fluoroacetate would only be a metabolite if there were an even number of carbons in the fluoroalkane. Since AM-694 and AM-2201 both have five carbons attached to their fluorines, toxicity is avoided. Additionally fluoroacetate is an acute toxin and would show signs fairly quickly, so if it were indeed being produced during metabolism you would probably be seeing more negative instances pop up. What happened to your friends is probably either some kind of precursor or leftover reagent from a poor synthesis or an entirely unrelated contagion. Although it is very important to note that alcohol was consumed. Alcohol, even in small amounts which would not normally phase an individual can massively amplify the effects of other drugs, especially synthetic cannabinoids!

Ya that shit feels like you poisoned your body after you do it a couple times. Ya the chemical structure looks like it could be toxic so stay away from it. The coughing blood thing isn't normal only in extremely Hugh doses are you sure that's actually what is was?

I am curious which part of its chemical structure were you referring to? Just the fluoropentyl tail? or did you mean the naphthoyl ring that it shares with many of the other cannabinoids on the market.

 

[concerned parent]

K2

Why do people think this is so cool? This stuff is really hurting people!

 

[Artificial Emotion]

It's human nature. All kids go through an experimenting phase and usually they grow out of it. People have been wanting to alter their consciousness forever. It really is nothing new.

K2 is/was legal, so easier for kids to get than cannabis. But anyway I would imagine this thread will get locked because it's a bit of a silly question.

 

[yteek]

After having experienced anxiety throughout my years of smoking, stopped for a month or 2 maybe more..... I smoked a blunt of dank with an associate and got really bad anxiety and paranoia(near psychotic some may argue).... and a crazy muscle dystonic like reaction. I kinda would like to try it again by purchasing a .5 and taking a toke or smoking a joint, to say the least I'm very scared and skeptical of this idea. I wouldn't want this one time to ruin my sanity or otherwise snowball into anxiety worsening.
Note: At the end of my smoking career, it started to get bad really bad and followed into sobriety...but still I guess I'm looking for a good time and an escape with a sense of relief.

Maybe it'd be better or worst then ever, ugh...why can't it be just simple?

Its been about a year or so since I've smoked anything .

 

[ldawg616]

i get anxiety when I smoke dro, so I just started growing my own reggie with seeds purchased over the net....Got some great indica that relives anxiety....you should invest in some lights and grow indica

 

[ldawg616]

Indirectly tell your kids that if they are gonna smoke k2vs weed, weed is much better for them. Try to make them feel bad about smoking it. I have had horrible trips on those legal buds

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

Yep.

People are going to do drugs. It's just human nature. Since cannabis is illegal, people are doing more dangerous (legal) alternatives. Simple as that.

 

[papa]

merged..

 

[yteek]

What do you mean by reggie, as in lower grade weed?
or
Not hydroponically grown.

Weed grown in soil could be just as potent .

 

[ldawg616]

Reggie is just grown in the dirt, usually sent from mexico. i gets you high, just takes a little longer

 

[yteek]

I'm aware of that, which made me question how you were going to grow "reggie".
When you grow your own(the right way), its not going be like that mexican scwhag its going to be more potent and more pleasant....which in return could also mean more anxiety, considering higher levels of THC and such.

I think you may just one of them people who calls good weed "dro"...despite not knowing rather it was grown hy"dro"ponically or not, good chance it maybe some soil grown in reality.

I've seen people use similar slang in the pass.

 

[OTGee]

Tapering off of Cannibinoids

Hello, I have been smoking incense for a little over 2 months daily. First trying a retail blend 'Haze' from an RC site, ordering that a few times then making my own blend. At first I was blown away by the cannabinoids, synthetic grass just sounded cool as being a stoner has always been no.1 and taking drugs has always been no.2. So I looked it all up and decided to make a pretty weak blend 300mg's AM-2201 + 250mg AM-694 over 10 - 12 g's of damiana. Smoked that over a week or two, was only meant to smoke it in evenings when alone but it started off as evenings and mornings. Then went to all day everyday. The blend was soon done but I wanted more, I ordered 3 grams of the retail blend until I made another but realised that it no longer ffected me anywere near as strong. Once that ran out there was a week long period were I had no smoking blend but instead, scraped the powder from the baggies everynight until I got a free sample of a crazy blend, it was really strong, if you smoked even more then 1/4 pinch you would probably overdose even with me being semi-tollerant after smoking everyday.

I orderd 20 grams of this new blend (contained AM-2201/2233) once the sample was done and had to go a day without synths, didn't notice it as I was taking codeine + smoking a lot of weed, kinda remember feeling slightly 'off' but not sure. As soon as this new blend comes, my fiancee gets a fulltime job and leaves me on my own with 40 grams of this very strong shit (weighed t out, must have been a mistake or something) and another 3 gram sample of another retail blend that I had ordered. From the first day I smoked all day everyday literally not going 40+ minuites without having a bong. That was probably about 2 - 3 weeks ago. So since then I have been smoking like that, I already had a low tolerance compared to some with cannabis and I mix with tobacco so this shit was lasting me a while. But past few days tolerance has gone threw the roof to the point of not getting stoned as I slowly smoke more and more. Last week my fiancee ordered 300mg's of am-2201 as it was really cheap so she could try synths again (she and I had a horrible overdose first day of that 40 gram blend. So I also have been smoking 300mg's of AM-2201 over 7 grams damiana.

Now I had been a little worried so I tried to stop without telling my fiancee what was up (she doesn't know ive been smoking so much). I got the wd pretty bad after like 12 hours and yesterday. she was telling me she was worried so I came all out and told her. We decided the best thing to do wuld be to taper off if I couldnt handle the wd's cold turkey. I was smoking around 2 grams per day maybe more as Ive just been packing bongs with huge pinches out the sack of it but this blend I got from some random dude offline is fucking powerful, its crazy shit so who knows how much or what ive been smoking.

Anyway, how should I taper down? Very gradually, quite quickly? Limit use to certain times of day (morning and evening is when I get any wd's worse) or just lower use. My fiancee took away all the incense apart from a very small bit that I am supposed to smoke today and theres a baggie begging to be scrapped although I will feel like shit if I do it. My fiancee has been complaining that this has been fucking me up mentally, in a notiacble way and I 100% agree, I would do anything for her so I gota quit this shit. The only thing that worries me, is I actually haven't been off this stuff really since I started, I mean I have no clue whats gunna happen yet.

I have cravings worse then I got for opiates for bongs, I just need that shit so badly, id do anything for that rush right now. I have started to depend on this shit way too much, its like all I have or do apart from my fiancee (works on both levels, haha i made a funny). I feel so away from reality, my thoughts are slow and blank and im finding it hard to think to a point were I feel like I have done permenant damage. Also physically im a good bit slower.

Throught this whole time I have been smoking regular weed (5 - 7 days a week) and taking a few other RC's / Drugs. Synth cannabinoids go well with psychedelics and anything else really, prepare for intense exp. Be careful health wise though. Weed has started to have less and less effect on me and I no longer find it appealing to have a bong with some real mj which is shit because I love weed, ive heard this comes back once my receptors go back (fingers crossed)

Any help on the tapering down or should I just go cold turkey? Im not a very strong person so fuck knows what will happen but I just want to get my life back on track a little, im never gunna find a job if I just keepsmoking this shit. Well anyway, I started thinking about how many bongs I had last night and only had one this morning, usually byn this time I would already be on another planet. I know this should probably be put into JWH ruined my life, or the emga disuccusion but I really want some info on tapering down as people have good plans but there all smoking 100% accurate home made blends so they can judge much easier. So feel free to move it if you want, I just wana get some kinda system / plan set up. Thanks in advance.

P.S. I know theres people with heroin problems, I know theres people who are smoking grams of pure synths a day. I do not care if you think my use does not need to be tappered from, I got wd's that were horrible depression, huge discociation (similair to bad trip / drug experiance it was so intense) so I just wana get off this, I don't care if im not hardcore enough I just want my life to be better and to make sure I keep my fiancee. Btw, I got the shits like fuck, sometimes constipated, sometimes im turning it on like a tap (sorry for the detail), What the fuck has this done to my insides haha?