Friends with a racist.

[Gnarles Bronson]

So, I have this close friend, lets call her Mary.

We've known each other for about ten years and I genuinely have a lot of love for her; But she's racist.

She's kind of complex I guess. She went through I faze of being really christian, had a baby with this guy who was pretty racist (but in a not completely filled with hate kind of way, like; "really with the advent of mechanized farm production, slavery was on it way out in the south during the time of the civil war"), she has a gay friend, and once probably five years ago made a comment about how she thought homosexuality was immoral, and then somewhat recently I found out she was dating a girl and now she's anti-christianity.

I didn't really know about her racist tendencies until a couple of years ago. It's all pretty subtle, but we were just talking about something, and she was telling me this story about how she was driving and there was this person who was driving poorly, and she thought to herself "this person is driving like an asian woman," and then lo and behold! it was! an asian woman! lolomg.

Later she was dating this guy who I told a pretty innocent racist joke to: "What did the mexican say when his research paper blew out the window?" "Where you going Essay?" And he went off on me on all these really terrible and stupid racist jokes

Anyway, I was recently on the phone with her and she was just being really stupid and saying stupid shit about Obama and JFK. And, once again it's subtle, but I got the hint that she didn't like Obama because he is black and she didn't like JFK because of his support of civil rights.

Anyway I don't really know what to do. I like her as a person, but she's dumb and a lot of times I think about just ditching her forever. Also I only have like three friends in the world, which makes me feel bad because maybe I'm just using her for her friendship or something.

Sometimes I think I should try and be a good influence on her or something--but my inclination is to just be like "STOP BEING RACIST YOU DUMB HO!" which I feel like isn't the best approach.

Any advice appreciated.

Cliffs: Friends with a nice person (for ten years) but shes kinda dumb or something and more than slightly a racist what should I do?

 

[Miss_vanilla]

I'm not sure how old you are but I know as I've gotten older I have no tolerance for people who don't share the same interests, morals or values as me. Being an educated person is important to me and it's important for me to be around like-minded people. I don't mean uni educated, I'm talking about people who are well read and decent who treat others with respect. People who live and let live and don't illogically judge people by lifestyle, race or sexuality. I probably sound stupidly snobbish, I don't mean to, but I just couldn't imagine being around someone like this, I'd most likely end up arguing with them a lot.

To be honest, racial intolerance is a deal breaker for me. I also don't see the point in trying to change people - people are people, they rarely change and if they do change or become better people or learn to prioritise their lives better, it has to come from life experiences and making mistakes which impact on them. People sometimes experience serious wake-up calls and this might trigger a life change but you know, this kind of intolerant attitude is often entrenched in people from birth and throughout generations.

I mean I can't say don't be friends with her anymore, but I'm pretty sure you've answered your own question tbh. And far better to only have a couple of close friends than a whole lot of people hanging around who you don't relate to.

 

[freddy47]

I personally have more than a few mildly racist friends and acquaintances. Some of this racism is even pointed at me sometimes (I am Chinese American). But I've learned to take it in stride and give as good as I get.

Sometimes what we see as racism is just ignorance as well as cultural upbringing. IMO almost everybody has a little tiny bit of racism in them. Obviously some more so than others. My mom for example has this nearly irrational I wouldn't say hate but dislike for Japanese people. Mainly because her parents were refugees during WWII and the Japanese tried to bomb them so its like a historical grievance. Koreans also dislike Japanese people.

But more on topic, to me this only becomes a problem when people are being overtly racist. Going up to a Chinese guy that is a complete stranger and calling them (not jokingly but maliciously) a Gook or a Chink or something like that which has actually happened to me once or twice. These are the people that I think need to be avoided.

However I can tolerate a friend who is mildly racist and tells stupid and dumb race jokes as long as they are not being completely serious. Hell I've done this myself a couple times. For example I have this really good Bulgarian friend who is always talking shit about me being Chinese and all. Saying I'm a bad driver (even though I don't drive or even have a license) and other shit. But I know he doesn't truly mean it and to be honest most of the time I just laugh because he is genuinely funny even when he is poking fun at me being Chinese and what not. He also knows when to not make comments like that. Like when I'm having a bad day or I tell him to shut the fuck up. Because in the end we are friends and he is just the way he is.

 

[spacejunk]

i agree with miss_vanilla - i can't handle having people around me (close to me) who have values that i find ugly.
it is important that people can agree to disagree sometimes, but it is obviously something that bothers you.
intolerance is something we need not tolerate...if that makes sense at all?
i suppose i find these sorts of attitudes enough to turn me off someone, no matter how lovely or magnetic they are in other ways.

i think rather than "ditching her forever", i would take her to task on the next racist comment she makes. i understand that a lot of the time we want to avoid confrontation as much as possible, but to be honest she sounds like the sort of judgemental character that has never been questioned on these matters.
i know what it is like to feel like you can't alienate your friends because you have so few of them...but i must say that when i did stop taking shit from my "friends" i was able to keep growing and ended up making many more friends who are caring and understanding and driven by love more than bitterness or envy or whatever it is that makes people assholes. shitty friends can hold you back and take attention away from the other people you could be meeting. the world is a big place...

i guess i have a particular problem with racists, especially when they are far from being 'superior' to anybody (ie a dumb fucking racist) but it obviously bothers you enough to bring it up here.
maybe you could outline your attitude towards racism to her and see what she says?

 

[RecklessWOT]

I don't let it bother me too much. I am a white male, so maybe that has something to do with it, but I honestly think people get wayyyy too worked up about it. I mean don't get me wrong, I think that people who go over the top with it are pretty pitiful, but for the most part people just make comments in good fun. If someone walks up to a whole bunch of respectable black people who are idk leaving church or something and starts cussing them out and dropping the n bomb all over the place, that guy's an asshole and kind of a piece of shit. It's hateful and wrong. BUT they're only words. If someone makes a joke about asian people driving or something, or makes a watermelon joke or whatever, dude they're just words. Stereotypes are more often than not just used as jokes. The truth is- there are many different types of people and races. It doesn't make anyone less equal or bad or whatever, but there are some differences and if you act like you don't notice and everyone's the exact same and you don't notice anything different then you're lying to yourself or just oblivious, or ridiculously over conservative and damn touchy. I'm not advocating racism or hate or anything like that. I think it's disrespectful and wrong to hate someone based on their race or beliefs, and I think it's pretty mean to treat someone differently because of something that's part of who they and how they are born. BUT if you're gonna get all butthurt and offended because someone made a few comments, and this is really a huge concern to the point that you're considering not talking to them because of it, then you need to grow up a little bit, or move out of San Fransisco... It's not like your friend is burning crosses and saying "all sissies goin to hell". Deal with it, that's how some people act. It's a part of society. Extremists are always gonna take it to a whole other sickening level, but for the most part, stop crying about something that's not even directed at you. Getting worked up over something that's mostly harmless is just plain stupid. If someone is bashing someone to their face to the point where it's upsetting that person, tell the offender to chill out. If nobody is being hurt by it, let it go, why do you even care

 

[Help?!?!]

I simply can't like a racist because their blissfully ignorant. To me racism is simply a logically flawed ideal. Humans are humans are humans to me. So if I know one person really thinks that they could be better than another based on a clearly pointless thing like race rather than any real merit....well thats a bit more than dumb to me and i've never even enjoyed surrounding myself with that style of stupidity. I've tried to enjoy a person even if they are pretty subtlety racist and it isn't major point, I just find racism intersects into to many avenues and it all becomes because of something rather than actually for something.... Let me say this though, i'm the kind of person who gets eaten alive mentally by these sort of things, my mind wouldn't let it go and it would just know that the racism/stupidity is lying there in wait.

 

[Max Power]

I told a pretty innocent racist joke

Just found this statement curious, considering the thread topic.

Friends with a nice person (for ten years) but shes kinda dumb or something and more than slightly a racist what should I do?

Birds of a feather flock together.
Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.
You are known by the company you keep.

But enough with the cliches. They are fun but not always perfectly relevant or accurate for the situation. All I have to say is if she makes you feel uncomfortable with her opinions (which she is obviously fond of sharing) then stop hanging out with her. No one is forcing you to be friends. If she asks, be honest with your reason why. You can try to sway her ideology, but a lot of the times that type of ignorance is far too deep-seeded to ever go away.

 

[spacejunk]

yeah, i can't agree that racist sentiments are "just words". it's the thought behind the words, i suppose. i live in a really racist country, built on genocidal colonialism, so it isn't something i take lightly.
i don't draw the line at extremism - i draw the line at the presence of racism at all.
i suppose i see the white superiority trip (assuming that is what the OP is talking about) as ironic and annoying considering how flawed and repulsive so many white people are, especially right-wing fundamentalist christian types - yet white people (in the west) are treated so much better than other ethnicities. i think in this day and age, racists should be shunned like the hicks they are - - - but that's just my prejudice shining through.
peace.

 

[Gnarles Bronson]

Thanks for your feedback.


She is one of my only friends, and shes stuck with me through a lot (of drug abuse) when other people abandoned me, so it is kind of hard to be hard on her. I also hate the feeling that I'm just really judgmental a lot of times.

Also, she did change her stance on homophobia so I guess I hold out hope for her.

I did make one comment to her that "as I get older I find racist jokes less funny, because racism is a serious issue." (or something like that) And I think that slightly sunk in with her, because she did try and quiet her boyfriend when he said something racist-ish later.

I guess I'm getting old, and will probably end up seeing her less because I'm sober now and she's not, so thats that. Maybe I'm just naturally growing distant from people that I used to have more superficial things in common with or something.

Getting old is weird.

-Peace

 

[freddy47]

^Yeah that happens.

Just keep in mind that people, all people, even fucking morons and idiots have the capacity to change.

I think a lot of people forget that.

 

[spacejunk]

true^
i think it's probably better to discuss or ignore than to run away from, but it really depends on the context i suppose.
she must have a heart to have stuck with you, and i suppose i feel like that must be the (potential) problem with racists - no empathy or whatever. sometimes people don't realise they're being offensive, they're just saying things they hear other people joke about.

 

[Cyc]

I don't let it bother me too much. I am a white male, so maybe that has something to do with it, but I honestly think people get wayyyy too worked up about it. I mean don't get me wrong, I think that people who go over the top with it are pretty pitiful, but for the most part people just make comments in good fun. If someone walks up to a whole bunch of respectable black people who are idk leaving church or something and starts cussing them out and dropping the n bomb all over the place, that guy's an asshole and kind of a piece of shit. It's hateful and wrong. BUT they're only words. If someone makes a joke about asian people driving or something, or makes a watermelon joke or whatever, dude they're just words. Stereotypes are more often than not just used as jokes. The truth is- there are many different types of people and races. It doesn't make anyone less equal or bad or whatever, but there are some differences and if you act like you don't notice and everyone's the exact same and you don't notice anything different then you're lying to yourself or just oblivious, or ridiculously over conservative and damn touchy. I'm not advocating racism or hate or anything like that. I think it's disrespectful and wrong to hate someone based on their race or beliefs, and I think it's pretty mean to treat someone differently because of something that's part of who they and how they are born. BUT if you're gonna get all butthurt and offended because someone made a few comments, and this is really a huge concern to the point that you're considering not talking to them because of it, then you need to grow up a little bit, or move out of San Fransisco... It's not like your friend is burning crosses and saying "all sissies goin to hell". Deal with it, that's how some people act. It's a part of society. Extremists are always gonna take it to a whole other sickening level, but for the most part, stop crying about something that's not even directed at you. Getting worked up over something that's mostly harmless is just plain stupid. If someone is bashing someone to their face to the point where it's upsetting that person, tell the offender to chill out. If nobody is being hurt by it, let it go, why do you even care

I agree. My group is somewhat racially diverse and racist jokes are dropped all over the place. The understanding I guess is that none of us are hateful about it, and if anyone were to get all srsface about it, the joy would get sucked out of the room and it would come to an end right there.

It's just about pushing boundaries and getting a laugh. Actually, now that I think about it, it's all gotten a bit old and we don't do it much anymore. At first, it was about who could say the most offensive thing and still not mean it. Now, I think we've wore ourselves out. It's not as much fun anymore to see who can scream "NIGGER" the loudest.

 

[L2R]

i can be friends, even good friends, with people who have opinions which i strongly detest. as long as they are honest with me, i can be comfortable with them.

 

[RobotRipping]

At first, it was about who could say the most offensive thing and still not mean it. Now, I think we've wore ourselves out. It's not as much fun anymore to see who can scream "NIGGER" the loudest.

lol reminds me of being in high school; i'm glad my sense of humor has matured beyond being needlessly offensive. I think most people mature and stop finding the same old boring racist jokes to be funny, unless there's something creative and original about the joke, it's just unnecessary and irritating.

i can't be friends with people who think they are better than others because of race/gender/sex/intelligence or anything else, we're all just people. I used to be friends with kids who had every advantage in life and they would argue with me that they were 'better' than the 'stupid' people who grew up with nothing, it's just as frustrating as having a racist friend. I think the people who are subtle about their racism are the real racists as they don't even realize that they are being racist, the people who tell stupid racist jokes just have a poor sense of comedy.

 

[Kenickie]

i'm astounded at the responses in this thread. i have absolutely no space in my life for friends who have any bigotry in them, what so ever. i even shut my father out for a year while i was dating a hispanic man because he had racist attitudes towards hispanic people. i want to think that he got over it before he died but who knows?

i'm one of those people who cyc says would suck the joy right out of a room, because usually, i'm the only not white person in the room, and i refuse to have any of that shit around me. it's pure poison and i will not subject myself to more micro aggressions than i already deal with. it took me a few years to get there but i won't stand for it anymore, ever. i would give your friend an ultimatum, because honestly, if i met you and your friend at the same time and she said something and you were there, even if you confronted her about it, i would assume you shared the same feelings because you chose to remain friends with her. it's not funny, it's not okay, it's not just words and it's ridiculously privileged to even be having this conversation.

 

[Pander Bear]

It's not as much fun anymore to see who can scream "NIGGER" the loudest.

That behavior doesn't fly where I'm from. Though, I think I'll grant that it has special significant down here, like casually calling somebody a Nazi in Europe does. Suffice to say its "not ok". Its cool and all to have a "safe space" to work out taboos, and I think for most people, telling racist jokes is about the flirtation with the forbidden, and learning about/probing societal boundaries, but you need to own up to the fact that when you joke about lazy mexicans, or poor driving asians, or greedy jews, you are contributing, in aggregate, to some of the nastiest impulses in history. Food for thought.

To the OP— I'd just stop spending much time with this person. They sound chronically ignorant and incurious.

 

[Kenickie]

side note: why does having a racially diverse group of friends make it "okay" to tell more racist/race based/racially insensitive/questionable jokes/comments/whatever? shouldn't the exact opposite be true? shouldn't it be now that you are friends with asians/hispanics/black people, you are more aware of your own behavior? i don't understand this at all. ethnic friends does not = a pass.

 

[ErikTheRed]

^I have a pretty diverse group of friends and we tell racist jokes from time to time. I think the key issue is whether or not your being hateful with your speech. I think it's OK to tell racist jokes if it's in good humor and depending on your audience. For example, I'm Jewish, and I wouldn't take offense if a good friend of mine told a Jewish joke. However, if I wasn't close to the person, or it was completely crass, I'd take offense. There's a fine line.

 

[freddy47]

side note: why does having a racially diverse group of friends make it "okay" to tell more racist/race based/racially insensitive/questionable jokes/comments/whatever? shouldn't the exact opposite be true? shouldn't it be now that you are friends with asians/hispanics/black people, you are more aware of your own behavior? i don't understand this at all. ethnic friends does not = a pass.

Well sometimes race jokes are genuinely funny. IMO anyway as long as it is done with good humor. I don't mind it too much for example when people make fun of me for being Chinese. I usually just laugh it off. I know its in good fun. Most people understand that.

I forgot which comedian said this but we got to laugh at the differences between people. We got to laugh at what makes us human. Otherwise we run the risk of taking things too seriously. I'm of the opinion that nothing in comedy should be off limits. Things should only be taken seriously if they were meant to be serious.

There is a difference between some guy making some crack about how Chinese people drive terribly. And someone going out of their way to offend every Asian he can. Its a matter of context and tone as well as attitude. I often find myself to be the only non-white person in a party when I go out with my predominately white friends. And NEARLY all of my friends have at one point made some crack about my Chinese heritage. But they're still my friends and I don't mind it at all. I just either ignore it, laugh it off, or in most cases make fun of them for being white. Its not malicious in any way.

 

[freddy47]

Also on a lighter note.

I think there are some races in the world that celebrate their racial differences and the more racist jokes that are told the more fun they are having.

I have this Swedish friend who talks about how whenever Swedes and Norwegians meet up or end up in the same bar. They tell racist jokes about each other. And the MORE racist and offensive it gets the more wild and fun the party gets. Like they actually enjoy it quite a bit. It's kind of like a racially motivated but friendly rivalry.

Probably has something to do with their Viking heritage.