Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Amanita Mushrooms Thread

[Thorns Have Roses]

Hey, dwayne, since you're the major advocate for this chemical here, I have to ask if you or anyone's experiences you know of with this has experienced significant visual distortions? I ask because I can't recall any, but as this shares a common mechanism with the other well known GABAergic hallucinogens, the z-hypnotics (selective affinity for GABA_A-ρ) I can't help but hope it shares their visual activity (which certain people seem more prone to than others...). However there are differences such as muscimol binding at the same site as GABA itself while the others bind at BZD receptor sites, so maybe this one is different in subjective effects.

I'd love to test it out myself someday (only previous experience was way back when I had an Oz of dried amanita caps but didn't properly prepare them. Ended up losing short term memory/constantly forgetting what I was doing for a few hours), but it's pretty far back on my list of things to get to.

 

[lordreven333]

I am on amanita muscaria right now about 20grams and its nothing special so far.

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

65-70 C, going over 80-85 C will damage the muscimol.

as far as I know, muscimol is pretty stable. I don't think 80°C will do much damage to it.

WRONG and WRONG.

1. I have read in hundreds of places that ibotenic acid IS INDEED a sickening dysphoria-inducing substance. I have no idea why you "think" it is benign.

2. Simple drying does NOT convert it sufficiently to Muscimol. Water and mild heat are REQUIRED to change all the ibotenic acid to musicmol which is THE ESSENTIAL KEY to transforming Amanitas from a head-spinning vomit fest into an otherworldy lucid dream inducing psychedelic dissociative.

so we agree that we want to convert the ibotenic acid to muscimol, right? this is definitely desireable, because muscimol has more psychedelic properties than ibotenic acid, and also muscimol is much less toxic than ibotenic acid.

I have never said that ibotenic acid is "benign", btw; all I have said was that its neurotoxic properties are irrelevant, because it cannot pass the blood-brain barrier. the neurotoxic properties of ibotenic acid were found in experiemnts where neurons were directly exposed to this compound. in short: if you just eat ibotenic acid, it will most likely not lead to brain damage, because it cannot cross the BBB. it might be toxic otherwise, though.

but now to the really important part: decaboxylation means removing carbon dioxide, and I am pretty sure that this is induced by drying, and not by adding water. I'm a bit confused now, unfortunately my chemical knowledge here comes to an end. hopefully, someone with more chemial understanding than me can help clear this up.

for the time being, I can just give you my personal experience with amanita muscaria: all I did in preparation is drying it with heath, making sure there is absolutely no moisture left. then I grounded the mushrooms to a powder and ingested them. 18g of amanita muscaria powder prepared this way lead to an extremely powerful psychedelic experience that was difficult because of its outherworldness, but it was completely benign on my body.

btw. I also remember to have read somewhere that it is important to not use carbonated drinks for ingestion, because this might lead to the backwards conversion of muscimol to ibotenic acid. this was quite hard for me, because I like carbonated drinks very much, and I drink lots of them; on the other hand, the fly agaric powder prepared my way had a really really disgusting taste (it was the most disgusting thing I ever ate), and therefore it was really difficult to gulp it down. now, usually I use coke for gulping down disgusting stuff, and this works quite well, but this was not possible in this case, because of the carbon dioxide in coke. and so I had to swallow my disgusting fly agaric mushroom powder with tap water. this was a real hard exercise in self-control, but I managed it, and I was rewarded with one of the most intense entheogenic experiences of my lifetime.

 

[SpinalTrap]

My limited experiences

I first tried Fly Agaric without any preparation at all. They arrived dried out and I started with 2 to 3 grams, thinking it was as potent as pscilocybin type shrooms. No effect. I then ate about 14 grams and salivated like crazy, a wonderful clean feeling in my mouth. Effects were minimal but enjoyable with little in the way of visuals. 2 weeks later, I ate the rest, about 24 grams. These might have been old shrooms because the effects were similar to my second attempt. I hope to try again, preparing the shrooms by boiling in water and then eating/drinking everything. I hope this works I will follow up. I did not experience nausea/puking when I did these.
I didn't read every single post, but no-one seems to have mentioned that ibotenic acid is the major component and after ingestion, about 10% is converted into Muscimol which is the psychoactive ingredient. If you pee into a jar during your trip, most of the ibotenic acid is excreted and can be re-ingested, again with about 10% of the remaining ibotenic acid converted to muscimol. This can be repeated 5 or 6 times and you'll get a much bigger bang for your buck. I'm not big on drinking other person's pee, but I don't mind my own. I guess it's more palatable if you add some orange juice and leave it for a while with no cap to evaporate any smelly pee stuff (ammonia?). You may fall asleep while waiting for it to kick in and could have very colourful dreams, then wake to the full fledged experience. Like psilocibe type shrooms, I don't believe any brain damage can occur and typically, you remain aware that you took them so hallucinations are not scary or unexpected.

Does anyone know if there is a rapid tolerance buildup with these as opposed to regular shrooms? Should one wait a while before reconsuming?

I will add more after my next try, enjoy all!

 

[Solipsis]

I just don't see the point of recycling urine if drying first and then steeping in water or milk for an hour at slightly sub-boiling temperatures is said to be a classic, even ancient method of preparation. People in Siberia might recycle urine if the mushrooms are scarce but who will draw the short straw and start as the first one to expose themselves to the highest amount of ibotenic acid?

There was some ibotenic acid around a while ago, I got some and so did a few other Bluelighters among which Manrider IIRC. We were confused at the time since it was sold as gaboxadol. It is a novel sleeping agent that was discontinuated during trials because it seemed to have the propensity to exacerbate certain pathological psychological states. Manrider did a trial with it anyway. The dose of gaboxadol is about that of ibotenic acid, coincidentally... and he felt a bit sleepy. Amanita's also make you kind of sleepy though, I've heard. Dream-like even.

 

[samm2]

This does seem like a "winter-type" entheogen, good for cold, wintery nights (like Siberian weather)....the Koryaks of Siberia used the mushroom to endure their grim environment(cold and bleak) and when pissing it was said the reindeer sought out to eat the "yellow snow" .....
The red and white outfit of santa claus is said to come from the colors of amanitas(red and white) along with santa having flushed facial features (effects of amanita cause flushing), stuff to think about...

post #236 says it best

 

[Transcendence]

Coming from someone who's lived in NE all my life, the Koryaks are made of much stronger stuff than I am. Damn.

 

[wooger]

hmm theres a forest very close to me and its always filled with these things, theyre really pretty!

 

[DwayneHoover]

Hey, dwayne, since you're the major advocate for this chemical here, I have to ask if you or anyone's experiences you know of with this has experienced significant visual distortions?

I wouldn't say I'm a "major advocate," just that properly prepared they can be interesting, not hideous as some insist on insisting. The experience itself can be rattling to be sure. There were no conscious open eye visuals I can recall. It all happens during the "Out" phases of the In & Out of consciousness waves that it produces used properly. All the action was during these intense semi-lucid psychedelic dream states that you remember during the awake periods, and the "visuals" during those can be intense and all-encompassing, as in any dream state, but lean more toward "alternate reality" with a great deal of realism but with fantastical semi-mythical events occurring, possibly involving elaborate impossible beasts, outer space sequences, aliens or god-like beings-of-light and whatnot. Whether you would call this "significant visual distortions" would depend on your definition of the term and on the particulars of your experiences.

 

[RhythmSpring]

Water and mild heat are REQUIRED to change all the ibotenic acid to musicmol which is THE ESSENTIAL KEY to transforming Amanitas from a head-spinning vomit fest into an otherworldy lucid dream inducing psychedelic dissociative.

So basically... cook the mushrooms?

 

[DwayneHoover]

^NO, the method CANNOT be described as simply "cooking"... "cooking" could mean a quick sizzle in a saute pan, which may well NOT be sufficient to convert all the nasty Ibotenic Acid into lovely Muscimol. And "cooking" to some people implies putting them in an omlett or on a pizza or whatever, and this is also a BAD idea... the active Muscimol will absorb and work MUCH more efficiently, and have a MUCH lower risk of stomach upset ON AN EMPTY STOMACH, so do NOT just cook them into some kind of food dish! I always think "God how retarded, why why why?" when I hear about people who, I guess just because they are an edible foodstuff, seem to INSIST on talking about making "food" out of any mushrooms, be they these or psilocybes. STUPID! THEY ARE NOT "FOOD" NUMBNUTS! YOU ARE TAKING DRUGS, M'KAY?

Jesus H. Christ, why must people insist on over-simplifying what is already a very simple process, especially in these Amanita threads? THIS IS HOW TO DO IT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!! HOW HARD IS THIS? I have to keep posting this over and over. Every time people INSIST on saying, "Hell, I'm just gonna eat em fresh" or "Hell just throw em in an omlett!" NOPE!

Easy simple proper instructions for preparing and using Amanita Muscaria:
(1) Dry them in a low oven with open door till 100% desiccated
(2) Crush to a powder, mix with a modest amount of water, and simmer (just barely bubbling) for *45 MINUTES*
(3) Strain out and discard the shroom meat, and drink the liquid. (A couple tokes of pot can help if you have an extremely sensitive stomach)
(4) Lie back and let your self get drawn into a state of "sleep" which will include vivid psychedelic and/or mythical/deeply-psychological dreams.

No I don't know what chemically the drying step does, seeing as it is followed by re-wetting and boiling... but that's how what I learned from the experts, and IT WORKS with NO nasty side effects, no nausea, and VERY interesting trance-like dream-states to follow... it's a very quick easy step, so WHY NO DO THAT???

YES you DO need to let yourself "nod off" to have the deep otherworldly immersive experiences. NOT a party or "Pink Floyd Show" type of thing!

 

[RhythmSpring]

^NO, the method CANNOT be described as simply "cooking"... "cooking" could mean a quick sizzle in a saute pan, which may well NOT be sufficient to convert all the nasty Ibotenic Acid into lovely Muscimol. And "cooking" to some people implies putting them in an omlett or on a pizza or whatever, and this is also a BAD idea... the active Muscimol will absorb and work MUCH more efficiently, and have a MUCH lower risk of stomach upset ON AN EMPTY STOMACH, so do NOT just cook them into some kind of food dish! I always think "God how retarded, why why why?" when I hear about people who, I guess just because they are an edible foodstuff, seem to INSIST on talking about making "food" out of any mushrooms, be they these or psilocybes. STUPID! THEY ARE NOT "FOOD" NUMBNUTS! YOU ARE TAKING DRUGS, M'KAY?

Jesus H. Christ, why must people insist on over-simplifying what is already a very simple process, especially in these Amanita threads? THIS IS HOW TO DO IT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!! HOW HARD IS THIS? I have to keep posting this over and over. Every time people INSIST on saying, "Hell, I'm just gonna eat em fresh" or "Hell just throw em in an omlett!" NOPE!

Easy simple proper instructions for preparing and using Amanita Muscaria:
(1) Dry them in a low oven with open door till 100% desiccated
(2) Crush to a powder, mix with a modest amount of water, and simmer (just barely bubbling) for *45 MINUTES*
(3) Strain out and discard the shroom meat, and drink the liquid. (A couple tokes of pot can help if you have an extremely sensitive stomach)
(4) Lie back and let your self get drawn into a state of "sleep" which will include vivid psychedelic and/or mythical/deeply-psychological dreams.

No I don't know what chemically the drying step does, seeing as it is followed by re-wetting and boiling... but that's how what I learned from the experts, and IT WORKS with NO nasty side effects, no nausea, and VERY interesting trance-like dream-states to follow... it's a very quick easy step, so WHY NO DO THAT???

YES you DO need to let yourself "nod off" to have the deep otherworldly immersive experiences. NOT a party or "Pink Floyd Show" type of thing!

I'm sorry if my post came off as ignorant. I was just going to sautee and then steam it thoroughly in a cast iron pan for 20 minutes or so, by itself, consume it by itself on an empty stomach and respectfully enter its space, not at a Pink Floyd concert.

But thank you for outlining the procedure. A few questions:

1) Why keep the oven door open? Won't it dry out just as well with it closed?
2) What is a "modest" amount of water?
3) How is there "shroom meat" if you've powdered everything?

And finally, I have heard from a couple of sources that removing the white spots, or even the red skin with the white spots, make the trip better (less nausea, more pleasant). Anything to say about that?

Thanks for the info.

 

[Dr Mamba]

STUPID! THEY ARE NOT "FOOD" NUMBNUTS! YOU ARE TAKING DRUGS, M'KAY?

Well, sorry to bother, may i ask you if you ever tried it ?
I tried amanitas in lots of ways : extracts i maid, roasted in oven, sun, place with no light.
The only valuable trip i got with this mushroom was with this :
- cut the stemp and discar the undercap stuf
- cut the cap and fried it with oil like a regular murshroom
- put eggs to do a regular omelette
Was a very fine "trip", with one big cap, very little nauséa.
Its hard to tell what is the best method, cause % of activ stuff vary a looot between murshrooms.
* put on my earplugs *

PS : it was very tasty

 

[PsycheMan]

Amanita Muscaria

[no brands, links to and prices of sources please, thanks!]

*snip*

I have the opportunity to digest this delicacy tonight.
I would greatly, and deeply appreciate instructions from those more experienced then me with this. Since the pack didn't come with any recommend dosages or specificites on how to prepare them. Also any personal experiences would be appreciated if described here.

Also, feel free to PM me any relevant information. Thank you. Namaste

 

[sekio]

Consult Erowid
and the Experience Vault
and the Big and Dandy Amanita thread

from what i have heard amanitas are not neccesarily a "delicacy" nor particularly pleasant as a psychedelic. part of the reason dosages are not provided is because amanitas can wildly vary in potency depending on season, location of growth, weather etc.

it is important to make sure your amanitas have been dried well, or boiled, as raw amanitas can contain the neurotoxin, ibotenic acid.

the best way to prepare them, I seem to recall, is slowly nibbling on the oven-dried (at maybe 110C?) fruiting bodies (or the red, warty skin of the mushroom cap). or boiling them in water for a while, and drinking the "tea" slowly. dosages are wildly variable, but try no more than one mushroom, or one half ounce/15 gm of material your first time.

the active ingredient is muscimol, a GABA-A full agonist. the effects sem similar to delerium, or zolpidem/zopiclone (Ambien/Lunesta) abuse.

Reports of effects vary widely, as is to be expected from a natural psychoactive. The mental effects may become apparent within half an hour, but more usually take an hour. The duration seems to be anywhere from four to ten hours. Euphoria, ataxia, and sensory alterations are characteristic, particularly alterations of hearing and taste. Visual effects have also been reported, as has nausea. A. muscaria may also produce cholinergic symptoms such as "profuse salivation and mild perspiration" [Ott].
[...]
According to Johnathan Ott, "These mushrooms are powerful. The effective dose range may be narrow. If it is exceeded, even by a small amount, a dissociative experience may result, even a comatose state or an inability to function. Of course, there are many who desire this kind of effect [I love that]; no doubt it would be alarming to others. There are many unanswered questions concerning the toxicity of these mushrooms. It has been suggested, and there is some evidence to support this, that the toxicity may vary according to location and season." The drying process turns ibotenic acid into muscimol, multiplying the potency by 5 or 6, and reduces bad side-effects.

Apparently many people who take it say it's "not all that nice, perhaps not even psychedelic". But here's what Ott says: "After oral ingestion, the full effects will begin in about 90 minutes. For me these are characterized by wavy motion in the visual field, an "alive" quality to inanimate objects, auditory hallucinations and a sense of great mental stillness and clarity. The effects are distinctly different from psilocybin, LSD or mescaline, and may last up to 8 hours. Side effects often include nausea, slight loss of balance and coordination, and drowsiness. [redacted - smoking them is usually reported to be ineffective]"

Need I repeat this? Anyone who wants to mess with these should learn a lot more about them than the above.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/amanitas/amanitas_info4.shtml

in future, please, do some research on your own before starting a thread here.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

They vary greatly from strain to strain.
Depending on the potency of your specimen the dosages can vary form being 3.5g-14g for an introductory exp.

The specimen my company carries are Washington State, and are quite active at 3.5g, with a full otherworldly exp being near 10-14g depending on individual response. Unfortunately, many specimen are unactive, or only mildly noticeable at this dosage...

The effects can be noticed at an hour, with probably hour two through 5 being the peak effects. I only have experience with lower doses myself though, so i can assume the peak effects would last a little longer if one took a full breakthrough experience

They can also be smoked, which produces a beautiful and mystical-feeling high :D But of course, as mentioned, the potency of any given specimen will determine the efficacy of smoking them. For me, with our really really potent Wash state AMs a sprinkle of the cap material onto a joint is a beautiful and relaxing experience; Not a trip really when smoked, but a very meditative high.

The effects when eaten for me are similar feeling to the disassociative quality of DXM (i have no exp with other disassociatives so cant compare). Very very meditative, i feel as though i am behind myself in silence during the experience. And the blessings provided by the mushrooms have been very beneficial to me in my development and evolution

Worth noting: I was using low doses of this mushrooms when i was living in the woods when i devloped an infection in my gums (bad tooth, blah, totally sucked). The relief provided from these mushrooms was undeniable. I say this because the change was prominent well after eating them. Of course i felt more relaxed and at peace while the muscimol was active in my brain, But more importantly the effect of decreasing the symptoms of my infection was undeniable. Through this couple of weeks i feel the mushroom helped to provide a medicine which was unlike the other plants in my arsenal. The relief felt very very similar to the 'ah, i finally feel as though i am not declining into imminent death' feeling which i've noticed the couple other times that i took amoxicillin when an infection crept up onto me. I'm no health expert, but this effect is worthy of studying IMO, and if i ever get another infection I will be sure to fight it off with some more low dose AMs. (dosage when fighting infection was close to 1g a day, not noticeably psychedelic at this dose, but the physical effect God damn was it pronounced)

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

From the B&D thread:

Easy simple proper instructions for preparing and using Amanita Muscaria:
(1) Dry them in a low oven with open door till 100% desiccated
(2) Crush to a powder, mix with a modest amount of water, and simmer (just barely bubbling) for *45 MINUTES*
(3) Strain out and discard the shroom meat, and drink the liquid. (A couple tokes of pot can help if you have an extremely sensitive stomach)
(4) Lie back and let your self get drawn into a state of "sleep" which will include vivid psychedelic and/or mythical/deeply-psychological dreams.

 

[thoughtsUnThought]

oh yeah, i ate them straigh. Lol, should've mentioned the specifics a little better in that essay of a post ha.

I hear good things about that technique mentioned by NKB though, definitely worth giving it a try. I experience no nausea from them though so i haven't felt the need to prepare them in any way other than consuming the dried specimen.

Is it conclusively determined whether the ibotenic acid converts to muscimol through the drying process..? I read that before, but i dont know for sure. If it does not, then from a chemical and physiological perspective than this process of applying additional heat seems like a good idea.

*the antibiotic effects i noticed though, were with uncooked and simply dried specimen*

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

oh yeah, i ate them straight

I ate an ounce straight the one time I tried, at the time I didn't think it did anything besides decimate my short term memory, but I was relatively inexperienced psych wise at the time, I was probably fairly dissociated.

 

[Ektor]

I ate a cap each with a close friend of Amanita Panterina, which is supposed to be a stronger version of muscaria.
We put it in the oven and cooked like roasting it, this was for rendering it less toxic and more psychoactive by decarboxilizing (transforming) the ibotenic acid it has inside in muscimol which is the psychoactive you want to ingest.
It tasted delicious, a little bit like chips with a chickenish flavor. Effects: dreamy light relaxation, more like half a beer before going to sleep.